The MxU Podcast

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why do we need people to think
we're so important?

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in my mind.

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I see two types of production guys.

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there is a production guy who consistently
makes other people feel important,

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there is a production guy

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that consistently needs people to know
he is important.

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the tech team can

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take the brunt of issues at times,
and they can be underappreciated.

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so then they start to believe this
victim mentality

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nobody knows how important I
in this place, cannot function without me.

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Yeah, I've said this for a while.

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I think that the production community
is being plagued by pride.

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Like, we just have so much pride in our,
our in our community, myself included.

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Okay.

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I need to.

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I need to to bring some thoughts
before you today, Dylan.

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Because

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every now and then I get.

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Do you ever get a little bit angsty?

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Angsty? Yeah.

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Is that a word?

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You make fun of my word.

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I don't want to start off
wrong on the wrong foot.

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No, no, but I get like. And I think you.

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I think you had little southern drawl
to you as well.

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Well, I take that as a compliment.

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Yeah.

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California boy with a little southern.

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Yeah. You ever get a little bit of angsty?

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Angsty? No.

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Like you even heard angsty. Yeah,
I know what you're saying.

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You just get a little bit like.

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This is so frustrating,
and I want to solve it.

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Yeah. I ain't disagreeing with you.

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Yeah, I disagree with you.

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And it usually

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for me, it happens in the later

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parts of the evening is
when my mind starts to get a little bit.

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You just it's like
you really just need to go to bed.

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Yeah. Why is that, though?

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But then it's hard to go to bed
because you're angsty.

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Why is that? Yes.

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So it's interesting
because I also find in moments of angst

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and frustration, there is some truth
to the situation, right?

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Like there's something there, but

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usually how we think we need to solve it,

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not the way to solve it.

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Last night I was thinking about this

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beautiful part of my job
as I get to talk to churches all the time,

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but also one of the more
frustrating parts of my job

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is that I'm talking to churches
all the time, and people are people.

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They're messy,
just getting their problems.

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And the last night
I was pondering some things, but

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this one's going to be about production,
guys, for all you listening. So

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which I would
say is a majority of listeners probably.

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Yeah it's a good. Yeah.

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So it's about you

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production guys
specifically not production women.

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And we can get into that later. Oh, yeah.

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Why not production?
Well, we'll get into that later.

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No, this is if you're
if you're a lady, don't leave.

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No. Don't leave.

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No, this is this is
this is great news for you to click.

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I have some thoughts,
and I just want to wrestle them

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back and forth with you a little bit.

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And you can help me work through
some of this, but they're in my mind.

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I see two types of production guys. Okay.

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And the first one I want to talk about is
there is a production guy who who

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consistently makes
other people feel important,

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and there is a production guy
that consistently needs people to

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know he is important.

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Is that fair to say?

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Yeah.

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What was the first one again?

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There is a production guy who consistently
makes others feel important.

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Gotcha.

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And there is a production guy,

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the one that walks in the room
and says, I'm here.

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Hey, there you are. Yeah. Versus
hey, here I am.

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Right, right right right right right. Or.

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Hey, pastor,

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how can I honor you of.

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Hey, pastor, you're going to
honor me in the message.

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Yeah, I see it.

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A lot of this
episode is going to feel black and white.

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Well, there's some.

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The dangerous part in all this is like,
we're probably a little bit of both,

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but it's the lack of recognition over

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the two sides of the teeter totter. And.

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Why is it?

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This can translate to many other,
many others out there.

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This can translate to worship leaders.

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But like what we're going to get into

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is I just specifically see in production
people,

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why do we need people to think
we're so important?

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I don't know if it has anything
to do with production people.

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I think that's just human nature.

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But there's something.

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There is something. So.

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I see it just so consistently
with production people.

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That's because that's
who you consistently work with.

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Yeah.

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You think it's everyone?

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I, I, I could be wrong,

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but production people
this is where I start being.

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Why do they always.

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Why do we always get the rap of man there.

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Just everything is about them
and their issues.

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Why are they like,
nobody wants to be around them.

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They're just.

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They're the Debbie Downers.

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They're the ones that are just like.

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It all leads to this,
this crux of self-importance.

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Do you not agree with that?

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I don't disagree with that.

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I'm trying to figure out in my own mind.

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I'm trying to.

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I just don't think it's production people.

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Yeah.

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I when I read that and I'm like,
there's two types of production people.

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There's the one that makes that
that makes others feel important.

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I just don't know many production
people who do that. Yeah, I know a couple.

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I mean, one name hit me immediately.

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Who? Give him give him some praise here.

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I think Adam Taylor okay.

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Actually, I would agree with that.

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And then Adam is over the top.

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One of the best dudes when it comes to

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people.

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Just love Adam for Adam.

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They don't love him for his mix.

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He doesn't have a big social media
presence where he's always talking about

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how awesome is that mixing like he he just
and you go hang around his team.

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They just love being around Adam. Yeah.
And he's been through it.

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I don't spend through it.
And he still is in the same church.

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People still love him.

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He's a strong gatherer of people.

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He puts on an incredible weekend
experience with little to no staff.

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People look at that and go, yeah,
that's something to right.

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You look at a massive church
like that with that

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level of excellence,
and you kind of get into the

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the weeds of their process
and realize it's 99.9% of volunteers.

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You can't pull it off
if you're not good people. Yeah, yeah.

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And if you want to make yourself
feel important.

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And why is that?

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Why is an atom such a rare occurrence?

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That's a great question.

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So that's what I've been trying
to process this whole time.

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That's why I keep soldering my words
and I'm pausing cause I'm like.

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I don't know why that's such a rare.

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I mean that to me that is character.

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It's who.

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It's who he is to how he was raised.

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Its who he's put himself around.

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It's how he has overcome
his hard situations.

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He could have gone in either direction

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until he's overcome and got stronger
and better through that process.

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He he's always been the type of guy
that has always been open handed.

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He's speaking to even somebody like,
you know me, that is not

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on a technical side of things,
but I can be it.

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For in a house
he is ten out of ten times going to ask me

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whether I'm his producer
or was his boss at once, or just a friend.

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He is going to turn back and look at me
and honor me by asking me one question.

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How do you feel about the mix?

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Is there anything I can do different?

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I'm like,

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well, you're mixing for some of the
largest artists in the world right now.

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Like, why are you asking these questions?

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That's just how he is
on the other side of things.

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Just swing it
and you go to other guys who are.

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You're not even allowed to be in there
for an A house at church.

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I can literally I put a sign up that says,
stay out of my booth.

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I don't want anybody in my booth.

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I've worked with those guys too.

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Right? It's just completely different.

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There is this stigmatized or this,

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Vibe.

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What is the word I'm looking for?

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This stigma that is.

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Church production.

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Guys are grumpy.

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It's just. It's an age old thing.

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Yeah, right. It's an age old thing.

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And honestly, you hit the head
on the nail by saying age for sure.

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What did I say?

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Head on nail.

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Sorry, I, I always have to correct you.

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That's fine.

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That's right.

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I also said stigma, which is your I.

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I cannot believe you guys are grumpy.

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We're just idiots.

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I cannot believe you left that one go.

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Because I wasn't thinking.

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I was like, well, I know that's a saggy
I situation.

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It's been
it's been a day already anyways,

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so it is still out there of like,
man, church guys are grumpy.

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I don't necessarily agree with that
either.

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I have seen it swing the other way.

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Yeah, I still agree with it.

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I think by by and large
we're were seen as the grumpy

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and until we can like no, no no
I'm not saying we're not seen as that.

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I don't think we are that I hung around,
I hung around enough

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production teams now to go.

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You and you. You more than me.

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But I've hung out with a ton of churches
in the production and creative space.

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I'm not leaving going, oh, those
majority of those guys are just grumpy.

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I'm not doing that.
These guys are awesome.

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We love going out together.

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We have a great time with these teams.

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But I have also been a decade
ago, a part of churches were

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said.

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We have just I'm just going to say it.

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It's the older guys in production
more than anybody in my opinion.

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It's the older aged male tech staff

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that has carried on this

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culture of watch your back

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because nobody else is

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fight for whatever you need
because no one else is going to fight

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for you around here.

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I do it all.

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I've been doing it all for ten years.

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Well, we'll we'll bleep out names.

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But like would you say

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in that camp. Was

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was yeah I don't see that anymore.

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Yeah. It's like I still kind of see
that with guys like that.

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Yeah.

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Where it's just like you don't understand.

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I've done x, Y and Z.

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I'm important. You are not important.

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And sweetheart, like,

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if you can get under the shell
of those guys

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you're talking about,
specifically tour guys

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that come into the church space, well,
kind of carry a little examples there.

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There's of I have done it at HP.

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Sure.
And you guys don't know how this works.

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It's like, well dude what you know,
which he's probably right.

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Someone that has done it
at a level of business like that

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with very defined systems,
budgets, operating costs,

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coming into a church and going, what is
how are you guys even functioning like?

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I can see a little bit
of a little bit of that.

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I talked to a lot of production
guys who are like, oh, I just can't.

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I can't handle fake pastors.

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They come into rooms and they're smiling
and they're asking people

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how their day, they're just so fake,
so tired of that.

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Like, I don't.

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And I'm like, bro, they're just trying to
like, be people, people.

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They're just trying to come in
and recognize you.

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Well, they don't actually mean it.

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They don't even remember my kids.

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Okay, just be charitable for a second.
Like it.

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At least they're smiling.

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You're the one that's like, grumpy,

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like, grumpily over in the corner,
changing batteries and microphones.

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It's been me. I mean, that's been me.

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But it's just like we're all human,
I think.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know that that that tends
to get tired in my opinion.

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I had a I think it was a kids pastor.

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I was sitting in front of house

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on staff as the executive producer

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over, over all campuses,
literally sitting up front of house.

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All the worship leaders are dotted
line to me.

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All the production are me.

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I have probably 12
people under my leadership,

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been there for five years,
sitting there for in a house and I feel

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so my type much older and it's a pastor
now turn around.

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I recognize him as a new hire and he goes,
hey man,

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I just want to thank you for serving today
and being here.

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And I thought to myself,
if you don't get out of the house, I'm

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going to take whatever I can find closest
to me and beat you over the head with it.

00:12:23:15 - 00:12:25:07
I had that thought

00:12:26:09 - 00:12:29:08
because I'm like, that was a fake.

00:12:29:08 - 00:12:31:06
First of all, I'm paid to be here.

00:12:31:06 - 00:12:32:13
I'm not serving right.

00:12:32:13 - 00:12:34:16
That was my attitude immediately,
just negative.

00:12:34:16 - 00:12:36:18
I'm paid to be here. I'm not serving.

00:12:36:18 - 00:12:38:03
Get out of here. You're being fake.

00:12:38:03 - 00:12:40:11
You're checking off your checklist,
going around, talking to volunteers,

00:12:40:11 - 00:12:44:17
telling them how thankful you are
that they're here, serving so guilty.

00:12:44:21 - 00:12:46:16
That's what
I'm saying. Like I'm just guilty of that.

00:12:46:16 - 00:12:48:22
Yeah. That happened. That's
why I've said we a lot here.

00:12:48:22 - 00:12:51:22
Yeah, it happened that that happened to me
probably

00:12:52:11 - 00:12:54:02
five years ago at this point.

00:12:54:02 - 00:12:57:05
So I'm hoping I mean, sure,
you know, see that that was toxic.

00:12:57:10 - 00:12:59:18
But yeah, I'm just saying I've done it.

00:12:59:18 - 00:13:02:17
It's without a doubt,
and I, I have to inventory

00:13:02:17 - 00:13:05:17
this for myself on a daily basis.
Just the.

00:13:05:22 - 00:13:07:22
Am I waking up?

00:13:07:22 - 00:13:10:17
Where's my heart at? Like, am I

00:13:11:20 - 00:13:12:12
in my.

00:13:12:12 - 00:13:15:18
Do I lean on the side of being charitable
towards others or skeptical?

00:13:16:05 - 00:13:20:17
Am I more interested in other people
knowing how important I am?

00:13:20:20 - 00:13:25:05
I? Am I more interested in other people
knowing how important they are?

00:13:25:22 - 00:13:30:16
Yeah, and in the technical realm,
I think the reason, you know,

00:13:30:18 - 00:13:34:01
yes, we recognize this happens to a lot of
people in many different verticals.

00:13:34:01 - 00:13:37:06
But the reason in the technical
around this tends to happen more often

00:13:37:19 - 00:13:41:12
is because the tech team can take

00:13:41:12 - 00:13:45:12
the brunt of issues at times,
and they can be underappreciated.

00:13:45:16 - 00:13:49:23
And so then they start to believe this
victim mentality that, like,

00:13:50:03 - 00:13:54:11
nobody knows how important I am
in this place, cannot function without me.

00:13:54:12 - 00:13:56:22
Yeah, I am so important and nobody knows.

00:13:56:22 - 00:13:59:18
And so I need everybody
to know how important I am.

00:13:59:18 - 00:14:04:22
And I see that trend all the way
through to the big dogs.

00:14:05:12 - 00:14:09:15
Yeah, like the dudes
who are very influential in our space,

00:14:09:15 - 00:14:13:22
that we know that everybody worships
the ground they walk on,

00:14:14:07 - 00:14:18:06
and they still have that
that thing inside them.

00:14:18:06 - 00:14:23:05
That's like I've spent years people under
appreciating how how skilled I am.

00:14:23:08 - 00:14:27:02
That's why I feel like Instagram
has blown up in the last five years,

00:14:27:04 - 00:14:28:12
people in our space, because they're like,

00:14:28:12 - 00:14:30:14
this is an outlet for people
to appreciate me.

00:14:30:14 - 00:14:31:14
Yeah, 100%.

00:14:31:14 - 00:14:35:12
And I don't get the appreciation of my
I'll get to that a little bit later.

00:14:35:12 - 00:14:37:07
The next thing I talk about,

00:14:38:15 - 00:14:41:02
two types of production
guys, the one who prays for everyone

00:14:41:02 - 00:14:44:02
and the one everyone has to pray for.

00:14:45:17 - 00:14:46:00
Yeah.

00:14:46:00 - 00:14:48:07
I mean,

00:14:48:07 - 00:14:49:04
why do you laugh?

00:14:49:04 - 00:14:51:23
I just

00:14:51:23 - 00:14:54:13
I don't know many

00:14:54:13 - 00:14:57:10
that do either
one of those, but like my mind.

00:14:57:10 - 00:14:58:15
Just. What do you mean?

00:14:58:15 - 00:15:01:15
Like, I don't know,
I could name five people that say

00:15:02:09 - 00:15:03:05
in team huddle.

00:15:03:05 - 00:15:04:18
Hey, guys,
I just need you guys to pray for me.

00:15:04:18 - 00:15:06:12
Like, I couldn't
name five production guys to do that.

00:15:06:12 - 00:15:07:12
I also couldn't name

00:15:07:12 - 00:15:09:14
five production guys that go around
and ask everybody, well,

00:15:09:14 - 00:15:11:16
the one that everyone's praying for, he's
not asking.

00:15:11:16 - 00:15:14:13
They're doing it because they're like,
we need to pray for someone.

00:15:14:13 - 00:15:15:18
Protect this guy.

00:15:15:18 - 00:15:18:18
Yeah, he's, you know, many like that.

00:15:18:18 - 00:15:21:15
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
We just need to pray for him.

00:15:21:15 - 00:15:23:10
Yeah. Let's all pray for him. Yeah,

00:15:24:15 - 00:15:27:15
yeah.

00:15:27:17 - 00:15:29:23
I think you said a little bit of it
earlier.

00:15:29:23 - 00:15:32:21
It is a little bit
of this victim mentality.

00:15:32:21 - 00:15:37:05
Because if I can convince people
that this is one scenario,

00:15:37:05 - 00:15:39:08
if I can, maybe I'm lacking my job
a little bit.

00:15:39:08 - 00:15:42:07
I'm not as good as what I thought
I was going to be, or

00:15:42:07 - 00:15:44:05
just jobs more challenging.

00:15:44:05 - 00:15:45:18
And because I'm the leader or I'm

00:15:45:18 - 00:15:49:22
an audio engineer or I'm out an out
front talent, I'm being exposed.

00:15:49:22 - 00:15:52:22
My weaknesses are being exposed
because of that.

00:15:52:22 - 00:15:54:01
I'm going through it.

00:15:54:01 - 00:15:56:21
I need you guys to pray for me
because things are going on at home.

00:15:56:21 - 00:15:59:07
Like what's really
you're just kind of hiding that.

00:15:59:07 - 00:16:00:15
You're just not.

00:16:00:15 - 00:16:04:09
Yeah, I've frankly, rarely
I can count on two hands

00:16:04:09 - 00:16:05:22
the amount of times
I have a production person

00:16:05:22 - 00:16:07:19
who's like,
I really need you to pray for me.

00:16:08:20 - 00:16:10:16
Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying
just few minutes ago.

00:16:10:16 - 00:16:12:22
The sense of,
I don't know many that do that.

00:16:12:22 - 00:16:13:13
Yeah.

00:16:13:13 - 00:16:16:22
I'm saying but you're saying

00:16:17:14 - 00:16:21:21
by just looking at you on your to pray
for you, just interacting with you.

00:16:21:22 - 00:16:23:13
Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:23:13 - 00:16:28:11
You know, and and, you know, rarely
do I come across production

00:16:28:19 - 00:16:32:07
folks, guys
who are prayer warriors either.

00:16:32:08 - 00:16:33:11
Right.

00:16:33:11 - 00:16:37:05
This last time and I have
and there's some out there

00:16:37:17 - 00:16:40:17
and it's always encouraging to see.

00:16:40:21 - 00:16:44:00
But are you the type of production guy
who's like.

00:16:46:09 - 00:16:47:10
At the end of Sunday?

00:16:47:10 - 00:16:48:06
Hey great job, by the way.

00:16:48:06 - 00:16:50:00
How can I be praying for you?

00:16:50:00 - 00:16:52:09
Yeah.

00:16:52:09 - 00:16:53:06
Bro.

00:16:53:06 - 00:16:56:01
Yeah. That doesn't
I don't know if that happens a ton.

00:16:56:01 - 00:17:00:03
Do we believe in the production community
like the power of prayer, or is it just.

00:17:00:15 - 00:17:02:16
It's like the thing that we amplify.

00:17:02:16 - 00:17:04:07
It's happening.

00:17:04:07 - 00:17:06:16
I just it's not common.

00:17:06:16 - 00:17:08:08
I've not seen to be common.

00:17:09:21 - 00:17:15:04
Yeah.

00:17:15:05 - 00:17:15:21
I mean, I would want

00:17:15:21 - 00:17:19:03
to say that even just recently, you know,
we're advancing this show right now

00:17:19:03 - 00:17:23:00
and they're, they're like extremely
not it's not negative or a bad thing.

00:17:23:00 - 00:17:24:17
They're extremely spiritual people.

00:17:24:17 - 00:17:27:23
I mean, it is like before
we spend a dollar, we pray,

00:17:27:23 - 00:17:31:13
before we make a decision,
we pray before we do this, we pray.

00:17:32:02 - 00:17:35:02
I've said in ten hours of zoom calls,

00:17:35:02 - 00:17:38:02
yesterday was the first one
we prayed in that as a production team,

00:17:38:15 - 00:17:41:15
I know those prayers are happening
in other teams, right?

00:17:41:15 - 00:17:44:17
But since we were production,
we just always kind of were like,

00:17:45:06 - 00:17:48:06
I don't know, that's a great question.

00:17:48:21 - 00:17:51:20
Something that mess with me while back.

00:17:52:18 - 00:17:55:08
Not because I doubted that
this was happening in his life,

00:17:55:08 - 00:17:58:08
but you were telling me that
you were doing a show with Cory Edwards,

00:17:58:09 - 00:18:02:08
and you were like,
man, Cory is just such a solid dude.

00:18:02:14 - 00:18:04:06
Like, one night you said he was like,

00:18:04:06 - 00:18:08:01
I'm just gonna go back to my hotel room
and pray, pray through some things.

00:18:08:08 - 00:18:11:23
And I was like, again, not like, oh,
I didn't know.

00:18:12:04 - 00:18:16:10
I knew Cory is an incredible guy,
but it's just so rare

00:18:16:20 - 00:18:19:01
that you have a high profile.

00:18:20:01 - 00:18:21:03
And we were out that night.

00:18:21:03 - 00:18:21:19
Yeah, we were out.

00:18:21:19 - 00:18:24:19
High profile, influential

00:18:26:00 - 00:18:27:11
production person.

00:18:27:11 - 00:18:29:07
Right.

00:18:29:07 - 00:18:32:12
Who goes out of their way

00:18:33:18 - 00:18:36:18
publicly to communicate
that they prioritize prayer in their life?

00:18:36:19 - 00:18:38:04
Yeah, yeah.

00:18:38:04 - 00:18:39:19
He and it was just like, whoa.

00:18:39:19 - 00:18:42:00
Like I just never see that.

00:18:42:00 - 00:18:43:18
Yeah. The scenario was very simple.

00:18:43:18 - 00:18:46:06
It was we were all out. Just a few of us
guys.

00:18:46:06 - 00:18:49:18
And, you know, some of us had beverages,
some of us didn't.

00:18:49:18 - 00:18:53:01
I didn't have a beverage course
and he didn't have one.

00:18:53:01 - 00:18:54:17
And when he was asked, why not?

00:18:54:17 - 00:18:56:08
He just he made it, just made it simple.

00:18:56:08 - 00:18:57:18
And it wasn't like a super churchy moment

00:18:57:18 - 00:18:59:05
because we were all brothers
in that moment.

00:18:59:05 - 00:18:59:11
Yeah.

00:18:59:11 - 00:19:02:12
And I hope he doesn't mind me
even sharing this, but he just said,

00:19:02:13 - 00:19:03:18
I just I just don't want to.

00:19:03:18 - 00:19:06:23
I'm going to go back to my room
and spend some time praying.

00:19:07:06 - 00:19:08:17
I'm not going to share with you. Why?

00:19:08:17 - 00:19:10:07
But he just he had some stuff going on

00:19:10:07 - 00:19:12:19
he had to pray through
and he's like, I'm just going to go.

00:19:12:19 - 00:19:14:20
And I remember I was just like,
that's what I told you.

00:19:14:20 - 00:19:18:17
I was like, these guys exist
out here at the time when I told you like

00:19:18:19 - 00:19:21:01
that was a powerful moment for me.

00:19:21:01 - 00:19:21:09
Yeah.

00:19:21:09 - 00:19:24:19
As someone who's an influence in my life,
who we've worked on same staff together.

00:19:24:20 - 00:19:25:14
Yeah. To go.

00:19:25:14 - 00:19:28:14
Oh, that's a really good idea. Sometimes.

00:19:28:23 - 00:19:29:20
You know what I'm saying,

00:19:31:03 - 00:19:32:06
man? Prayer.

00:19:32:06 - 00:19:34:04
Like, as much as we go through it.

00:19:34:04 - 00:19:37:01
Yeah. You're just telling you're not.
You didn't.

00:19:37:01 - 00:19:39:11
You didn't answer the whole
the whole restaurant.

00:19:39:11 - 00:19:42:11
He just said, I need to intentionally
go back and pray right now.

00:19:42:14 - 00:19:45:12
I was like, I should do that more. Yep.

00:19:45:12 - 00:19:49:05
And he's a he's a very big production.

00:19:49:06 - 00:19:51:19
I mean, he's a production in church World.

00:19:51:19 - 00:19:52:22
His name is on a billboard.

00:19:52:22 - 00:19:53:08
Yeah.

00:19:53:08 - 00:19:55:20
Corey's going to go down like on
Mount Rushmore.

00:19:55:20 - 00:19:58:04
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah. For for church production.

00:19:58:04 - 00:19:58:21
And I'll.

00:19:58:21 - 00:20:00:15
I'll be the one carving his nose.

00:20:00:15 - 00:20:04:20
But what's unfortunate is that
there's others who are on that Mount

00:20:04:21 - 00:20:07:21
Rushmore who.

00:20:08:22 - 00:20:09:19
Literally have.

00:20:09:19 - 00:20:12:14
I've.

00:20:12:14 - 00:20:14:03
Never heard him talk about prayer once.

00:20:14:03 - 00:20:15:22
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:15:22 - 00:20:20:21
This is something that, like,
I've always deeply respected

00:20:20:21 - 00:20:24:02
as we're just calling out, I like to
give people public praise sometimes.

00:20:24:03 - 00:20:27:03
You know, Jeff Sandstrom

00:20:27:03 - 00:20:30:07
has, like, been that for me for the last

00:20:31:06 - 00:20:32:17
ten years now.

00:20:32:17 - 00:20:36:06
Like the reason Jeff Sandstrom
has so much respect around here at MSU

00:20:36:06 - 00:20:39:15
and amongst
our community is because he is like

00:20:39:19 - 00:20:42:18
the spiritual father of you.

00:20:42:18 - 00:20:45:21
Anytime we have Jeff, I mean, we've
had Jeff on the podcast recently.

00:20:46:12 - 00:20:50:18
Every single time
he is going to find a way to bring

00:20:51:21 - 00:20:55:20
spirituality back into what we're doing in
church production. Yep.

00:20:56:02 - 00:21:01:16
Going back to when he started sonnet
House prior to you and so on and so forth.

00:21:01:17 - 00:21:05:09
Like there are people like that that live.

00:21:05:12 - 00:21:08:12
Jeff lives a pretty quiet life.

00:21:09:22 - 00:21:12:02
Going to do the,
the right next thing in front of him.

00:21:12:02 - 00:21:15:09
And oftentimes
that's prayer for other people.

00:21:16:04 - 00:21:19:04
And yeah, I don't know, I just,
I just think

00:21:20:10 - 00:21:23:20
I those are two types of production
guys that I see.

00:21:23:20 - 00:21:27:21
Something else
I see often, the one that you're going

00:21:27:21 - 00:21:32:06
to love, this one, the one who blows their
budget on volunteer lunches

00:21:33:08 - 00:21:35:00
in the production person that

00:21:35:00 - 00:21:38:18
blows their budget on dopamine, aka gear.

00:21:40:10 - 00:21:43:10
Yeah.

00:21:44:23 - 00:21:48:08
Which one do you think is the majority
there?

00:21:48:08 - 00:21:50:23
Of course,
the one who blows their budget on gear.

00:21:50:23 - 00:21:53:04
Yeah. Oh, we go to waves.

00:21:53:04 - 00:21:56:05
We got extra waves plug in like, dude,
I love gear.

00:21:56:17 - 00:22:00:23
You ask, anybody knows me, they know
I am a gear head like you can, I could.

00:22:01:02 - 00:22:03:23
I love systems, I love I just

00:22:03:23 - 00:22:06:23
whether it's in church production
or other facets of life,

00:22:08:12 - 00:22:10:20
I'm the first okay don't like I'm

00:22:10:20 - 00:22:14:02
not trying to holier than thou here,
but it's like

00:22:15:12 - 00:22:18:12
we love spending our money on stuff.

00:22:20:08 - 00:22:23:02
I see this on all the conversations
I have are people are like,

00:22:23:02 - 00:22:26:02
oh, we're just, you know,
those technical conversations are church.

00:22:26:05 - 00:22:30:10
Church leaders are fiscal
fiscal year starts here.

00:22:30:10 - 00:22:32:18
And trying to
we got this one purchase to make

00:22:32:18 - 00:22:35:20
and this other thing like never
is it like oh bro,

00:22:35:21 - 00:22:38:16
we just like gangbusters at chick fil A
for our last team night.

00:22:38:16 - 00:22:40:20
And it pushed us over. Yeah.

00:22:41:21 - 00:22:43:11
That's never the conversation.

00:22:43:11 - 00:22:45:23
Yeah.

00:22:45:23 - 00:22:48:04
But it's more typically the root

00:22:48:04 - 00:22:51:23
of so many of our issues
in the ministry is underappreciated.

00:22:51:23 - 00:22:54:23
People under trained people.

00:22:55:00 - 00:22:57:20
We don't know people's kids names.

00:22:57:20 - 00:23:00:11
Hey, I want to take a quick break
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Now back to the show.

00:23:26:22 - 00:23:30:07
It's just so much easier
to care about the other thing.

00:23:30:13 - 00:23:31:16
Yeah, it's dopamine.

00:23:31:16 - 00:23:32:14
That's why I said dopamine,

00:23:32:14 - 00:23:34:13
because I truly think it's dopamine
for production people.

00:23:34:13 - 00:23:37:20
I mean, well, I mean, we know
buying stuff is hits a dopamine trigger,

00:23:37:21 - 00:23:39:21
like just me going to Amazon
and purchasing things.

00:23:39:21 - 00:23:41:10
That is automatic triggering dopamine.

00:23:41:10 - 00:23:42:10
That's that's known.

00:23:42:10 - 00:23:45:14
So now you take it
and you buy something that is

00:23:46:13 - 00:23:47:21
helping or

00:23:47:21 - 00:23:50:18
making it better or sound better,
look better.

00:23:50:18 - 00:23:52:15
Now you're getting a double dopamine hit.

00:23:52:15 - 00:23:55:13
You're purchasing dopamine hit one,
then dopamine hit two.

00:23:55:13 - 00:23:58:02
It's not your money doesn't mean two.

00:23:58:02 - 00:24:03:08
Dopamine three is that you
now get to see it in action.

00:24:03:08 - 00:24:05:03
And that is awesome.

00:24:05:03 - 00:24:09:16
I also have those that same dopamine hit
I have dopamine hits when I purchasing.

00:24:10:09 - 00:24:11:23
I have to mean hit when I see it.

00:24:11:23 - 00:24:14:18
I happen in real time

00:24:14:18 - 00:24:17:18
where the dopamine lacs for most

00:24:18:00 - 00:24:21:08
is taking someone out to lunch

00:24:21:08 - 00:24:27:10
and listen to them vent, or listen to them
talk about their mom.

00:24:27:10 - 00:24:30:08
With stage four cancer that is draining.

00:24:30:08 - 00:24:32:17
That is not a dopamine hit.

00:24:32:17 - 00:24:35:21
You leave those conversations
and you were exhausted and you're

00:24:35:21 - 00:24:39:19
just like, I don't want to do that again,
because now it's 2:00 in the afternoon.

00:24:39:19 - 00:24:43:04
I feel like I need to go home and
take a bath because I'm just so depressed.

00:24:43:12 - 00:24:44:15
Right.

00:24:44:15 - 00:24:47:04
It's the exact opposite.

00:24:47:04 - 00:24:50:07
And so where the leader shines

00:24:50:23 - 00:24:54:13
is when they have dopamine hits
for buying and purchasing gear,

00:24:54:16 - 00:24:58:09
and they get a dopamine hit
when that person shares with them

00:24:58:09 - 00:25:00:13
that they have needs,
and that leader puts their hand

00:25:00:13 - 00:25:02:09
on their shoulder and says,
can I pray for you?

00:25:02:09 - 00:25:05:08
And they get a dopamine hit,
which is the Holy Spirit.

00:25:05:13 - 00:25:07:09
That's
where the leader shines, in my opinion.

00:25:07:09 - 00:25:08:05
They can do both.

00:25:08:05 - 00:25:10:15
They manage both. It's a rare breed.

00:25:10:15 - 00:25:12:02
They do exist.

00:25:12:02 - 00:25:16:09
But that's that's
where I think they shone.

00:25:18:09 - 00:25:19:19
Yeah, I think that's well said.

00:25:19:19 - 00:25:22:08
I'm going to move on to the. Okay.
Thank you.

00:25:22:08 - 00:25:25:08
I appreciate you think that's well said.

00:25:26:01 - 00:25:28:19
You're gonna love this one too.

00:25:28:19 - 00:25:31:19
The one who brags about their leadership

00:25:32:11 - 00:25:35:11
oversight and the one who talks

00:25:35:16 - 00:25:38:22
are the one who complains
about their leadership or oversight.

00:25:43:14 - 00:25:44:10
The best.

00:25:44:10 - 00:25:45:16
I mean, how common do we see that?

00:25:45:16 - 00:25:48:16
It's the most common
and it's the most common,

00:25:49:04 - 00:25:51:10
whether it's a worship pastor,
senior pastor.

00:25:51:10 - 00:25:54:10
We had this conversation
the whole time thing.

00:25:56:02 - 00:25:58:23
I'm going to say it, John
Maxwell breaks us down very, very well.

00:25:58:23 - 00:26:03:11
And I still use this book as a leadership
principle for most of these situations.

00:26:03:16 - 00:26:09:12
The level five liter one through five,
what we see most in our category,

00:26:09:12 - 00:26:15:13
unfortunately, opinion level one and level
two leaders leaders by title.

00:26:17:02 - 00:26:17:17
So level

00:26:17:17 - 00:26:20:17
one, if a level one leader is a leader
by title,

00:26:21:14 - 00:26:22:15
you've given me a title.

00:26:22:15 - 00:26:23:22
Therefore I'm that leader.

00:26:23:22 - 00:26:26:22
Yeah, that's where we live.

00:26:27:00 - 00:26:29:10
Or you're not even on the level
1 to 5 scale yet.

00:26:29:10 - 00:26:31:22
And you're like, I just want that title.

00:26:31:22 - 00:26:36:06
But to be a level five liter
titles have nothing to do with that.

00:26:36:23 - 00:26:39:22
And yeah.

00:26:39:22 - 00:26:43:13
So so you're saying then them
complaining about their leadership,

00:26:44:07 - 00:26:49:04
their oversight for those that complain
about their leadership and oversight,

00:26:49:05 - 00:26:53:04
they are I would think what they're saying
is I don't have any and I deserve it.

00:26:53:13 - 00:26:58:05
So you're saying it comes from
a place of I again not feeling important?

00:26:58:06 - 00:27:01:09
Why do people not see me
as a leader around here?

00:27:01:13 - 00:27:04:11
I can lead people,
which is like the crux again,

00:27:04:11 - 00:27:06:23
that's where I go back to the
need to feel important.

00:27:06:23 - 00:27:09:23
Yes I can, I want to be a leader.

00:27:10:04 - 00:27:11:03
I want to be a leader.

00:27:11:03 - 00:27:12:13
I know leaders get paid more around.

00:27:12:13 - 00:27:16:01
Nobody asked me how long the sermon
should go, but I know how long it goes

00:27:16:13 - 00:27:17:17
because that's leadership.

00:27:17:17 - 00:27:18:23
Yeah, exactly.

00:27:18:23 - 00:27:20:23
So I've been that guy.

00:27:20:23 - 00:27:25:17
I sat across the table from a leader and
said, I want to be a leader around here.

00:27:25:23 - 00:27:28:00
Like, why?
Why am I not viewed as a leader?

00:27:28:00 - 00:27:29:09
I've said these words.

00:27:29:09 - 00:27:30:15
This is a decade ago.

00:27:30:15 - 00:27:32:04
He's like,
I want to be a leader around here.

00:27:32:04 - 00:27:33:03
He goes, yes, great.

00:27:33:03 - 00:27:34:14
Who are you leading?

00:27:34:14 - 00:27:36:20
Yeah. It's like, what do you mean?

00:27:36:20 - 00:27:38:21
He's like, well,
who are you currently leading?

00:27:38:21 - 00:27:40:04
Like, who are you? Just like, how are you?

00:27:40:04 - 00:27:42:05
Who are you building influence with it?

00:27:43:10 - 00:27:43:17
Yeah.

00:27:43:17 - 00:27:46:00
And he just he just said it.
You're not a leader.

00:27:46:00 - 00:27:49:13
Do you find that the ones who honor their
leaders and brag about their leaders are.

00:27:50:00 - 00:27:51:21
No, no, no,
I don't know what you're getting.

00:27:51:21 - 00:27:53:16
Right, but no, you lost me already.

00:27:53:16 - 00:27:55:07
What's the next one?

00:27:55:07 - 00:27:57:01
You're saying
you've never seen anybody do that?

00:27:57:01 - 00:27:58:11
I don't like that.

00:27:58:11 - 00:28:00:21
You don't? No, no no, no,
I don't know where you're going.

00:28:00:21 - 00:28:03:15
I interrupt you,
I apologize, I'm saying honor and brag.

00:28:03:15 - 00:28:06:15
I was like, I'm out. I'm saying

00:28:07:02 - 00:28:08:12
we'll go back to Adam, okay?

00:28:08:12 - 00:28:10:19
Because actually, Adam
does the honoring part.

00:28:10:19 - 00:28:13:11
I'm out on the add
a weird, elevating Adam.

00:28:13:11 - 00:28:15:10
Adam would brag about Judd.

00:28:15:10 - 00:28:18:00
That's what I'm saying. Yeah,

00:28:18:00 - 00:28:19:04
that that's the difference.

00:28:19:04 - 00:28:24:09
There's people who would complain
about Judd as their leader.

00:28:24:15 - 00:28:27:09
And there's people who would brag
about Judd.

00:28:27:09 - 00:28:27:17
Yeah.

00:28:27:17 - 00:28:29:15
As their leader in production.

00:28:29:15 - 00:28:32:10
We see those two, two things.

00:28:34:00 - 00:28:34:17
Adam.

00:28:34:17 - 00:28:35:13
Another great example.

00:28:35:13 - 00:28:39:08
We'll call out honor like honor
culture is very important to Adam.

00:28:39:17 - 00:28:42:08
I've never heard him
ever say a bad thing about Judd.

00:28:42:08 - 00:28:45:08
Right.

00:28:45:12 - 00:28:47:19
Of course, Judd's
human said there's problems.

00:28:47:19 - 00:28:52:08
But what do you see in those people
who tend to brag about their leaders

00:28:52:09 - 00:28:56:08
and tend to honor their leaders,
their leadership, their oversight?

00:28:56:09 - 00:28:59:07
Right.

00:28:59:07 - 00:29:00:11
Why are they able to do that?

00:29:00:11 - 00:29:04:00
And other like, is it
because they've been given leadership

00:29:04:00 - 00:29:08:12
and so they don't have that insecurity of
I don't feel important, like no,

00:29:08:18 - 00:29:11:11
because they were given it
because they earned it

00:29:11:11 - 00:29:13:07
because they're actual good leaders.

00:29:13:07 - 00:29:17:00
So so the first step is bragging
and honoring

00:29:17:04 - 00:29:20:04
about your leadership. No,

00:29:20:09 - 00:29:25:07
no, that's not even a step in
leadership, in my opinion.

00:29:26:11 - 00:29:28:17
You are not
convincing me that you're a good leader

00:29:28:17 - 00:29:31:17
because you know how to say good words
about the person who's leading you.

00:29:31:22 - 00:29:33:02
That's a culture thing.

00:29:33:02 - 00:29:34:02
Yeah,

00:29:34:02 - 00:29:37:10
you are showing me you're a good leader
because when I walk in the room, people

00:29:37:19 - 00:29:42:07
come to you for influence
because you make them feel significant.

00:29:42:08 - 00:29:43:07
Yes. And important.

00:29:43:07 - 00:29:45:20
So when you walk in the room
and everyone's like, oh, what's up Adam?

00:29:45:20 - 00:29:48:20
They all stand up to give you a hug
and we're glad you're here.

00:29:49:02 - 00:29:50:05
That's a leader.

00:29:50:05 - 00:29:50:12
Yeah.

00:29:50:12 - 00:29:51:05
When you walk in the room

00:29:51:05 - 00:29:54:08
and people turn their backs
to you and walk away from you because you

00:29:54:22 - 00:29:59:07
have a title over them,
you are just a level one leader by title.

00:29:59:08 - 00:30:00:07
Yeah.

00:30:00:07 - 00:30:03:15
And you don't be in the bragging
and honoring part.

00:30:03:16 - 00:30:06:08
That's just that's not a leadership trait.
That's just a character trait.

00:30:06:08 - 00:30:07:08
That's just who you are.

00:30:07:08 - 00:30:07:14
Yeah.

00:30:07:14 - 00:30:11:01
Well, it's an outcome
I often find of of a secure leader.

00:30:11:02 - 00:30:14:11
Yeah, but but we know there are churches
where you are disciplined.

00:30:14:11 - 00:30:18:09
If you do not honor your leaders
and you do not brag about your leaders,

00:30:18:09 - 00:30:19:15
you're disciplined.

00:30:19:15 - 00:30:21:03
That is not a leadership trait.

00:30:21:03 - 00:30:23:19
That is a weird culture trait. Yeah.

00:30:25:21 - 00:30:26:21
I got a couple more.

00:30:26:21 - 00:30:30:12
The one who is always talking about

00:30:30:13 - 00:30:34:02
the production person, who's
always talking about what God is doing,

00:30:34:19 - 00:30:37:23
and then there's the production person
that is consistently

00:30:37:23 - 00:30:40:06
talking about what everyone else is doing.

00:30:40:06 - 00:30:41:21
Yeah.

00:30:41:21 - 00:30:44:20
It's good.

00:30:45:23 - 00:30:47:04
We love talking.

00:30:47:04 - 00:30:50:04
I mean, even on this podcast,
of course, people are listening. So

00:30:51:16 - 00:30:53:19
the production community
we love about talking,

00:30:53:19 - 00:30:56:19
we love talking about what other people
are doing.

00:30:57:21 - 00:31:00:21
A couple of years back, I told my wife,

00:31:01:05 - 00:31:04:05
I told Olivia I was at a dinner.

00:31:06:03 - 00:31:07:07
With some production people

00:31:07:07 - 00:31:10:07
and I just came home exhausted.

00:31:10:15 - 00:31:12:19
She was like,
what's did you have a good time?

00:31:12:19 - 00:31:15:19
I'm like, no, I did not have a good time.

00:31:16:12 - 00:31:17:00
Like what?

00:31:17:00 - 00:31:19:13
I'm like, I just, I feel like I just,

00:31:20:22 - 00:31:21:10
I just

00:31:21:10 - 00:31:25:07
no way too much about people after dinners
like that.

00:31:25:07 - 00:31:27:09
It's just like, did you hear
what so-and-so is doing over it?

00:31:27:09 - 00:31:29:02
So they just installed that one

00:31:29:02 - 00:31:32:01
and you'll never
guess who they use to integrate it.

00:31:32:01 - 00:31:34:12
Oh, did you hear about so-and-so
and what happened over there?

00:31:34:12 - 00:31:36:19
And they actually just decided that,

00:31:36:19 - 00:31:40:08
you know, they finally
they finally realized that Midas sucks.

00:31:40:08 - 00:31:42:00
And so they ended up doing this instead.

00:31:42:00 - 00:31:44:20
Did you did you hear about that person
they actually left their church

00:31:44:20 - 00:31:46:06
or that person? They had an affair.

00:31:46:06 - 00:31:48:00
Did you just say the the gossip comes in?

00:31:48:00 - 00:31:48:03
Yeah.

00:31:48:03 - 00:31:51:03
It's just like it's
it's all over the place.

00:31:51:03 - 00:31:51:20
It is.

00:31:51:20 - 00:31:54:20
When's the last time
you sat down at a table

00:31:55:09 - 00:31:59:15
with production people
and somebody asked the question,

00:31:59:15 - 00:32:02:09
what's got up to in your life
or in your community?

00:32:02:09 - 00:32:04:04
That person is mocked.

00:32:04:04 - 00:32:05:21
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mocked.

00:32:08:17 - 00:32:10:05
By a person's weird.

00:32:10:05 - 00:32:12:01
Yeah.

00:32:12:01 - 00:32:14:06
They're just like our fake pastors

00:32:14:06 - 00:32:17:06
asking stupid fake questions.

00:32:19:06 - 00:32:20:08
And something to ask yourself.

00:32:20:08 - 00:32:24:03
Who's listening to this
is those moments do sting a little bit,

00:32:24:03 - 00:32:27:23
but has anyone ever viewed you that way?

00:32:28:15 - 00:32:30:04
And that should be a check.

00:32:30:04 - 00:32:32:08
Yeah, it should be a check.

00:32:32:08 - 00:32:34:06
I've been viewed that way
only a handful of times.

00:32:34:06 - 00:32:37:06
But looking back over my life,

00:32:40:05 - 00:32:41:13
Of course not me.

00:32:41:13 - 00:32:42:05
I want to.

00:32:42:05 - 00:32:44:05
I want to make you feel like
I'm important.

00:32:44:05 - 00:32:47:12
No. The point is, is that I did

00:32:47:13 - 00:32:51:01
16 years of full time ministry,
and there's only five fingers on a hand.

00:32:51:01 - 00:32:54:15
So when I say a handful of times,
it's like, that's not a lot of times.

00:32:54:16 - 00:32:55:00
Yeah.

00:32:55:00 - 00:32:56:18
So that's actually a conviction of mine

00:32:56:18 - 00:32:59:00
that I wasn't viewed
more of that kind of leader.

00:32:59:00 - 00:32:59:10
Yeah.

00:32:59:10 - 00:33:02:12
Than the guy that was just leading

00:33:02:14 - 00:33:05:23
in the gossip
and the cool church world stuff.

00:33:06:00 - 00:33:07:11
You know, the comparison thing.

00:33:07:11 - 00:33:08:08
Yeah.

00:33:08:08 - 00:33:11:13
And again, it comes back to that feeling
that needing to feel important.

00:33:11:13 - 00:33:14:13
Well, if I don't have information
on other people.

00:33:14:19 - 00:33:19:18
Oh did you hear about that, that the,
you know, fulcrum just sold the bows.

00:33:19:22 - 00:33:22:06
Okay. Great example. It just happened.

00:33:22:06 - 00:33:23:11
Oh. Do you know why?

00:33:23:11 - 00:33:24:08
Do you know why?

00:33:24:08 - 00:33:24:19
No, no.

00:33:24:19 - 00:33:25:06
Tell me.

00:33:25:06 - 00:33:28:15
Oh, it's actually because of this
and this and and that.

00:33:28:15 - 00:33:31:15
And so I've got the I'm. I'm an insider.

00:33:31:20 - 00:33:32:20
You can trust me.

00:33:32:20 - 00:33:35:20
I'm a big deal, I feel important.

00:33:36:04 - 00:33:38:09
I need you to know that I am important.

00:33:38:09 - 00:33:38:21
Right?

00:33:38:21 - 00:33:42:20
It's that it just it all kind of comes
together in this one melting pot.

00:33:43:02 - 00:33:45:17
And it's like, dude, nobody cares.

00:33:45:17 - 00:33:49:12
Nobody who's actually mature
and grounded in their faith cares, right?

00:33:50:09 - 00:33:51:02
Like,

00:33:52:16 - 00:33:54:13
that's a good point.

00:33:54:13 - 00:33:56:10
People
that get to a place where they don't care

00:33:56:10 - 00:33:58:09
because they're so grounded
in their faith.

00:33:58:09 - 00:34:00:08
Man, that's a good place to be.

00:34:00:08 - 00:34:02:09
Yeah. And it's and it causes this.

00:34:02:09 - 00:34:05:20
Frankly,
sometimes I see this be the divide

00:34:06:14 - 00:34:10:09
in churches
between worship and tech culture

00:34:11:11 - 00:34:13:14
like worship pastor.

00:34:13:14 - 00:34:16:14
And this isn't always the case,
but I've seen this recently, a few times

00:34:16:14 - 00:34:19:14
where it's like worship pastor

00:34:20:00 - 00:34:22:14
has a bit more spiritual maturity

00:34:22:14 - 00:34:25:14
than the tech team, and

00:34:26:13 - 00:34:29:14
they are trying to lead them
and move them along

00:34:29:16 - 00:34:32:16
in the tech teams like.

00:34:33:20 - 00:34:36:20
Dude, you're checking off a list.

00:34:37:00 - 00:34:38:01
You're just like that guy.

00:34:38:01 - 00:34:39:05
You're just like that guy.

00:34:39:05 - 00:34:42:05
And and I,

00:34:42:19 - 00:34:45:08
I see that the technical community

00:34:45:08 - 00:34:48:23
sometimes will take cues
from each other in this way.

00:34:49:01 - 00:34:52:23
And it's like in a lot of ways,
I love the,

00:34:53:00 - 00:34:55:17
like, camaraderie online
amongst the technical community.

00:34:55:17 - 00:34:59:17
We're all in this together,
but sometimes it feels like elitism and

00:34:59:17 - 00:35:04:04
and a bit of a cult of like,
nobody understands us, you know?

00:35:04:05 - 00:35:07:05
And yeah, we just we spend time

00:35:07:05 - 00:35:10:12
talking about other people and things
that just legitimately do not matter.

00:35:10:17 - 00:35:12:16
Yeah, but we give them power.

00:35:14:13 - 00:35:16:17
Dopamine some reason go back to dopamine.

00:35:16:17 - 00:35:18:06
Yeah.

00:35:18:06 - 00:35:21:02
But then also to remind yourself this,
there's a reason

00:35:21:02 - 00:35:24:02
why you take part in those conversations.

00:35:24:21 - 00:35:28:20
And you get all that dopamine hit
and you're making people laugh and you're

00:35:29:05 - 00:35:32:14
talking gossiping about the church down
the road, about how they, their staff are

00:35:32:14 - 00:35:33:21
just not good at what they do.

00:35:33:21 - 00:35:37:01
And we are or or they don't have the
PA like we have or

00:35:37:01 - 00:35:41:05
we wish we had that PA like whatever
the angle you want to approach is.

00:35:41:05 - 00:35:44:06
But there's a reason why most of us,
when we leave those conversations

00:35:44:06 - 00:35:47:14
just about it within an hour
after that, we feel exhausted

00:35:48:04 - 00:35:52:12
because we weren't a part
of any sort of life giving conversation.

00:35:52:12 - 00:35:57:06
And the dopamine that we have received
has now crashed and we feel crashed.

00:35:57:07 - 00:35:59:23
Yeah. There's a reason
why you feel crashed. Yeah.

00:36:04:13 - 00:36:04:19
All right.

00:36:04:19 - 00:36:07:10
I'm gonna I'm gonna end on this one.

00:36:07:10 - 00:36:09:12
These are known in no particular order.

00:36:09:12 - 00:36:12:12
I think that last one was probably the one
I feel most convicted about.

00:36:14:06 - 00:36:15:10
Two types of production people.

00:36:15:10 - 00:36:18:02
The one who is

00:36:18:02 - 00:36:21:02
focused on leading his local community.

00:36:22:16 - 00:36:24:22
Or the one that's focused on
leading everyone

00:36:24:22 - 00:36:27:22
except his local community.

00:36:29:00 - 00:36:30:13
Define local community.

00:36:30:13 - 00:36:34:18
Your church, your team, the problems,
the things that are right in front of

00:36:34:18 - 00:36:38:03
your face is staring
you dead center in the face.

00:36:39:11 - 00:36:42:01
I see there's
there are people who are in that mess

00:36:42:01 - 00:36:43:19
and they're like,
I'm going to take care of this.

00:36:43:19 - 00:36:46:04
I'm going to lead my team. I'm
going to lead my church.

00:36:46:04 - 00:36:51:10
And then I see another
production person who is,

00:36:52:10 - 00:36:53:22
yeah, that's not awesome.

00:36:53:22 - 00:36:57:18
What I'd rather do is
go get recognized elsewhere

00:36:57:21 - 00:37:01:22
for how awesome
my team is and my culture is.

00:37:01:22 - 00:37:03:16
Yeah,

00:37:03:16 - 00:37:05:15
I'm going to go start
an Instagram account.

00:37:05:15 - 00:37:08:04
Yeah, I'm going to go,
which is nothing wrong with starting this.

00:37:08:04 - 00:37:08:22
No no no no no no.

00:37:08:22 - 00:37:11:08
I mean, look,
I was thinking about this the other day.

00:37:11:08 - 00:37:15:14
I have an Instagram account side
tangent back in the day when people

00:37:15:19 - 00:37:18:19
I feel.

00:37:18:20 - 00:37:19:06
Oh, man.

00:37:19:06 - 00:37:20:08
Some people might twist

00:37:20:08 - 00:37:24:02
words and really get mad at me about this,
but like ten years ago, the hot thing

00:37:24:02 - 00:37:27:16
when you were you were not content in
your ministry was to start an event.

00:37:27:18 - 00:37:31:19
Okay, how many of you is like, oh, let's
start a circle, let's start a round up.

00:37:31:19 - 00:37:34:19
I'm going to,
you know, it's like, let's do events.

00:37:35:07 - 00:37:36:16
And then it became

00:37:38:08 - 00:37:40:17
it slowly turned into I'm going to.

00:37:40:17 - 00:37:42:05
Then it became knowledge.

00:37:42:05 - 00:37:44:17
It's always been kind of this
like passing of knowledge.

00:37:44:17 - 00:37:46:07
Now I'm going to go start
an Instagram account

00:37:46:07 - 00:37:49:09
or a Facebook group or a this
or that some way to

00:37:50:10 - 00:37:53:20
it's like, again, dude, you got issues
like you're in this local ministry

00:37:53:20 - 00:37:58:08
right here, but you seem so passionate
about everything other than that.

00:37:59:00 - 00:38:01:09
Right. And whatever.

00:38:01:09 - 00:38:03:20
Now it's

00:38:03:20 - 00:38:05:02
now in the age.

00:38:05:02 - 00:38:09:03
It's we always joke around here at MCU
because how many AI slop tools get

00:38:09:04 - 00:38:11:16
I mean, now
how many people on Instagram are like,

00:38:11:16 - 00:38:14:14
I just built a tool
that you're all going to want, right?

00:38:14:14 - 00:38:18:11
And it's like it all just kind of goes
on this journey of like, bro.

00:38:18:12 - 00:38:20:01
Do you work in church?

00:38:20:01 - 00:38:21:21
Yeah. Like, what are you doing?

00:38:21:21 - 00:38:24:21
Like either quit working in church

00:38:24:22 - 00:38:28:07
and do this thing or work in your church.

00:38:29:05 - 00:38:33:14
Why are you like, I don't understand
this infatuation with like.

00:38:33:17 - 00:38:36:05
And if you can do both, great.

00:38:36:05 - 00:38:37:14
No, no.

00:38:37:14 - 00:38:39:18
Hey, I mean, like, Brad
Bremmer is a good example of that.

00:38:39:18 - 00:38:40:16
Like, Brad,

00:38:41:16 - 00:38:42:21
I've never been to Brad Church,

00:38:42:21 - 00:38:46:09
but I only ever hear incredible things
about southeast, like you've told me.

00:38:46:10 - 00:38:49:19
Like folks at Concord told me they were up
there and like, bro, they're dialed.

00:38:49:20 - 00:38:52:14
And Brad does a bunch of other stuff
and I'm like, that's awesome.

00:38:52:14 - 00:38:55:23
But like, you got your
you got your stuff taken care of at home.

00:38:56:04 - 00:38:57:13
Yeah. Which is sick.

00:38:57:13 - 00:39:01:10
Brad's foundation is very
you care about your local community,

00:39:01:15 - 00:39:04:15
and then everything you do outside of that

00:39:04:17 - 00:39:07:04
to to others is like an outpouring.

00:39:07:04 - 00:39:09:14
It's a reward for you also.

00:39:09:14 - 00:39:12:21
And going back, it's a reward for the
people who learn from them 100% and not.

00:39:12:22 - 00:39:14:06
And just to go back to the John

00:39:14:06 - 00:39:18:04
Maxwell level one through five, level
five is a leader of people with influence,

00:39:18:05 - 00:39:21:11
have leadership influence over
other people who are leaders.

00:39:22:17 - 00:39:23:08
Right.

00:39:23:08 - 00:39:25:16
But he did not become that overnight.

00:39:25:16 - 00:39:27:07
He started as a one.

00:39:27:07 - 00:39:31:15
He served faithfully, honored, faithfully
led, faithfully put people first.

00:39:31:15 - 00:39:34:15
And now he's where he's at. Yeah,

00:39:34:19 - 00:39:38:16
it's it's
those that want to go from 1 to 5.

00:39:38:17 - 00:39:39:17
Yeah.

00:39:39:17 - 00:39:42:11
And that is you just can't do that. Yeah.

00:39:42:11 - 00:39:44:18
It's a great resource if you're trying
to become a level five leader.

00:39:44:18 - 00:39:46:00
It really is a great resource.

00:39:46:00 - 00:39:48:02
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:48:02 - 00:39:50:20
I think that there's just nothing

00:39:50:20 - 00:39:53:20
more honoring than than like.

00:39:55:09 - 00:39:57:14
Doing the,
the thing that you are paid to do

00:39:57:14 - 00:40:02:06
that is in front of you
for the people that are sacrificing

00:40:02:15 - 00:40:05:07
so that you can do that thing. Yeah.

00:40:05:07 - 00:40:06:09
That things got to be pretty simple.

00:40:06:09 - 00:40:07:17
Yeah. It's priority for sure.

00:40:07:17 - 00:40:11:16
Like you, if you don't want to work in the
local church and you want to

00:40:12:16 - 00:40:14:18
go do something else, do it 100%.

00:40:14:18 - 00:40:17:09
You just don't stop trying to have it
both ways.

00:40:17:09 - 00:40:20:09
And a lot of that fear driven.

00:40:20:10 - 00:40:21:08
Yeah, sure.

00:40:21:08 - 00:40:21:19
If I,

00:40:21:19 - 00:40:24:11
if I stay here, I get paid over two weeks,
I get health insurance, I get this,

00:40:24:11 - 00:40:25:22
I get that a little bit of this
that and the third

00:40:25:22 - 00:40:28:13
cell phone bill paid for every now
and then. Bill out every now and then.

00:40:28:13 - 00:40:29:23
Cool. Staff lunches.

00:40:29:23 - 00:40:31:00
Yeah. It's a thing. Yeah.

00:40:31:00 - 00:40:33:06
Just, just it's a simple question.

00:40:33:06 - 00:40:34:01
Are your prayer.

00:40:34:01 - 00:40:37:22
It doesn't mean you can't do a little bit
of where is your priority and your focus

00:40:38:03 - 00:40:41:02
is your focus in your local community,

00:40:41:02 - 00:40:44:21
or is it not in your local community?

00:40:45:11 - 00:40:47:11
Are you way more interested in?

00:40:47:11 - 00:40:48:15
And I've had this conviction

00:40:48:15 - 00:40:52:14
at MQ over the years
to we help churches at a larger scale.

00:40:52:18 - 00:40:56:04
I call it like macro ministry
and my more excited

00:40:56:04 - 00:41:00:01
about macro ministry
than micro ministry, right?

00:41:00:02 - 00:41:02:19
Do I still want to have
people over into my home?

00:41:02:19 - 00:41:07:03
Do I still want to evangelize to the LDS

00:41:07:04 - 00:41:10:05
person who makes their way over
to my house somehow?

00:41:10:13 - 00:41:14:01
Do I still want to like whatever
it looks like for people?

00:41:14:02 - 00:41:15:02
Why are you smirking

00:41:16:13 - 00:41:20:06
LDS I'm like latter day.

00:41:23:10 - 00:41:25:18
You're not evangelizing to them, yes I am.

00:41:25:18 - 00:41:28:18
Oh wait, yeah, 100% to them,

00:41:29:12 - 00:41:32:12
bro. I had a long conversation. Hey.

00:41:32:14 - 00:41:34:21
Oh. All right, Covid

00:41:34:21 - 00:41:35:07
fifth.

00:41:35:07 - 00:41:37:20
I plead the fifth.

00:41:37:20 - 00:41:41:00
No, it's a whole other conversation,
but it's actually one that I live in.

00:41:41:00 - 00:41:43:15
I've been talking about I

00:41:43:15 - 00:41:44:18
another conversation.

00:41:44:18 - 00:41:47:18
Yeah, we definitely do not have time
for that one.

00:41:49:01 - 00:41:50:14
Are you invested in your local church?

00:41:50:14 - 00:41:54:16
Are you are you doing the
the things that were commanded of,

00:41:54:17 - 00:41:57:17
you know, all throughout Scripture
and being

00:41:59:02 - 00:42:02:02
involved,
investing in our local community?

00:42:03:08 - 00:42:06:08
It's important and don't

00:42:07:07 - 00:42:10:07
don't undermine it
for your macro influence.

00:42:12:05 - 00:42:15:05
The reason
none of this has to do with women

00:42:15:05 - 00:42:17:11
is because I don't know
any women who have this problem.

00:42:17:11 - 00:42:18:06
Oh my gosh,

00:42:19:15 - 00:42:20:21
they're all great.

00:42:20:21 - 00:42:23:09
No, I mean, really, what the

00:42:23:09 - 00:42:25:06
the poor women at the
at the beginning of the episode,

00:42:25:06 - 00:42:27:06
you're like, stick around, it's
not for you, but stick around.

00:42:27:06 - 00:42:29:11
You'll find out at sticking around.

00:42:29:11 - 00:42:31:11
They're like, yeah, you tell them no.

00:42:31:11 - 00:42:35:07
Honestly, I thought about that one
and I was like, I just,

00:42:35:20 - 00:42:38:10
I honestly, first of all, there's rare,

00:42:38:10 - 00:42:41:17
rare is it that we find women
leadership in church production.

00:42:41:17 - 00:42:43:07
It's becoming more and more common.

00:42:43:07 - 00:42:45:01
Thankfully. I think it's awesome.

00:42:45:01 - 00:42:48:07
But the ones that I do come across,
I'm just like,

00:42:48:08 - 00:42:51:10
Holy smokes, you're a rock star like you.

00:42:52:09 - 00:42:54:01
I just don't see these issues.

00:42:54:01 - 00:42:56:16
I think a lot of it
I've I've said this for a while.

00:42:56:16 - 00:42:59:16
I think that the production community
is being plagued by pride.

00:42:59:21 - 00:43:04:07
Like, we just have so much pride in our,
our in our community, myself included.

00:43:04:17 - 00:43:09:04
And I don't think it's a I don't think
it's a coincidence that a community

00:43:09:04 - 00:43:13:20
that deals with tremendous amount of pride
happens to predominantly be male.

00:43:15:00 - 00:43:16:19
Yeah,

00:43:16:19 - 00:43:17:16
I'm a male.

00:43:17:16 - 00:43:18:11
You're a male.

00:43:18:11 - 00:43:20:00
We are prideful.

00:43:20:00 - 00:43:23:00
It's something we see commonly.

00:43:23:07 - 00:43:26:09
And I.

00:43:26:09 - 00:43:29:06
Yeah, I just call it as I see it.

00:43:29:06 - 00:43:33:02
Like so
I think it's a whole other episode,

00:43:33:02 - 00:43:33:22
but I think it's something

00:43:33:22 - 00:43:37:23
we could take from our sisters in Christ
like and take some cues from.

00:43:38:00 - 00:43:40:01
So I can think of five.

00:43:40:01 - 00:43:43:01
I'm just like, would you, would you think,

00:43:43:11 - 00:43:47:06
would you say people on platform
artists, let's call it artists?

00:43:47:06 - 00:43:50:17
Do you think artists are also carry
this prideful natured about them as well?

00:43:53:00 - 00:43:54:07
Yeah, it's a whole other.

00:43:54:07 - 00:43:55:10
It's a whole other.

00:43:55:10 - 00:43:56:01
We're all human.

00:43:56:01 - 00:43:58:21
So we are on stage or in the spotlight.
We got a little pride.

00:43:58:21 - 00:44:01:14
It's a different list, though. It's
I don't think it's the same.

00:44:01:14 - 00:44:05:08
But what we're seeing in the production
community in the last 5 to 7 years is

00:44:05:09 - 00:44:08:05
we are becoming artist.
We are being known as artists. Now.

00:44:08:05 - 00:44:11:02
You hear about when you're on a console,
you're an artist.

00:44:11:02 - 00:44:14:08
When you're behind a Latin console,
you're not just a production individual.

00:44:14:17 - 00:44:16:18
It's just like, yeah, I'm an artist.

00:44:16:18 - 00:44:18:03
Yeah. Like this, like this.

00:44:18:03 - 00:44:20:21
I'm showing the world
my creative skill set. Yeah.

00:44:20:21 - 00:44:24:05
But that we've just seen that wave
in the last five years,

00:44:24:14 - 00:44:25:17
maybe a little longer.

00:44:25:17 - 00:44:27:21
So that's why you see these Instagram
accounts popping up everywhere.

00:44:27:21 - 00:44:29:01
And these influential individuals,

00:44:29:01 - 00:44:31:14
nothing wrong with it,
but they are their artist.

00:44:31:14 - 00:44:33:11
And so they kind of carry
that a little bit of

00:44:33:11 - 00:44:35:05
I know I'm good at what I do,
and a lot of people

00:44:35:05 - 00:44:36:15
actually know I'm good at what I do.

00:44:36:15 - 00:44:40:04
So I want to help people or I'm going
to do this or I'm going to post this.

00:44:40:04 - 00:44:42:15
So it's been great, man.

00:44:42:15 - 00:44:43:20
Yeah, I think it, I think it is.

00:44:43:20 - 00:44:46:09
Dylan's like, yeah, I gotta go,
I got this.

00:44:46:09 - 00:44:48:21
No, no this is good.
If you made it this far.

00:44:48:21 - 00:44:49:22
Thanks for listening.

00:44:49:22 - 00:44:53:14
Hopefully it's been applicable, helpful,
encouraging, convicting all of it.

00:44:53:14 - 00:44:55:06
If you want to learn more about MQ,

00:44:55:06 - 00:44:57:17
we'll put information
down in the description below.

00:44:57:17 - 00:44:59:14
Thanks for listening or watching.

00:44:59:14 - 00:45:02:06
We will see you
next time on the MCU podcast.