The MxU Podcast

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Our worship team just
like spent all of our budget

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okay, worship
just got new guitars.

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They got in.

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They built a new tracks rig.

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But the PA like,
what are we doing

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you want to talk big money?

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You need to make sure you know
how to handle big money.

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What kind of communication
channels do we need to

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What kind of conversations do
we need to start having?

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What kind of weekly recap do
we need to have to make sure

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I'm not spending all the money
So there's so many things

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that facets of this problem
just throwing

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money at stuff
is not going to fix.

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we've got do a better job
of assessing like, okay,

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what's the fundamental issue?

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I shoot this podcast?

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Okay.
What are we talking about?

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Budgets.

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Budgets.

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Who should get all the money?

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Oh, you're so blind.

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Who should get all the money?

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Worship or tech ministry?

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Who who who gets
most of the budget?

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Church planters
and missionaries

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episode over.

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I think a lot of churches
are sharing budgets

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across worship
and tech ministry.

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That's what I'm hearing.

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One, one
kind of pooled budget.

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I never personally
have seen it that way,

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but I'm having a lot
of conversations with people.

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So your production person, I'm
a worship person.

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Our executive pastor
comes to us and says, you have

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$20,000 for the year,
and you both have to share it.

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Is what you're saying?

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Yeah.

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Like, yeah, here's the worship
and production budget.

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Do you think that's mostly

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a function of church size
and staff size?

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It's really hard to.

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Yeah.

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I mean,
I was just talking to a church

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that there's multiple campuses

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and I'm not going to name any
names, but they were like,

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we don't know what to do.

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Our worship team just like
spent all of our budget and

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we had all these plans.

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Now those plans won't happen
because worship team.

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Doesn't have their spending
under control.

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And and the problem is

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they probably had

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justification via spreadsheets
and plans and itemized

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whatever gear lists and things

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that they could
actually prove.

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And then worship went ahead
and willy nilly just sort of

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bought something
they thought was cool

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and now spent all the money.
Yeah, basically.

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Which is a gross stereotype,
because it's really easy

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to say most production
people are ones and zeros

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that got spreadsheets,
they've got systems

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and blah, blah, blah,
and worship. People are like,

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do you see that
new pedalboard?

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You know, like, oh,
we should get that.

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That's not all cases, but

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and then there's
a lot of worship pastors too,

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that are genuinely asking
the question, okay,

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I have this budget
for my worship and tech team.

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Where should I be
spending my money?

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Yeah. Like how much of
it should go towards people?

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How much of it
should it go towards?

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Equipment?

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We need equipment
to pull off Sundays

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to some degree,
depending on what

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you're doing in your church.

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So like

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money is going to be spent on
gear.

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We're not we're not villains.

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That so how do we go
about making these decisions?

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And every church

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is going to be a little bit
unique in this way.

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But I think we should dive in
and, and maybe talk

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about some best practices
when we're

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looking at this pool of change
that should be

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divided up for the sake of the
worship and tech ministry.

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Yeah.

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Have you have you normally

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when you've ever seen teams
that have

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you've normally maybe
been given a top line number,

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but then internally
you are okay.

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This is much going to go
towards production.

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This much is going to go to.

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You know what's funny
I'll think about this

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while you're talking.

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I it's either
I was just a horrendous leader

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when I was worked in church,

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which definitely
could be the case.

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Yep. Or

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I worked in the rare,
unique cultures

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where we didn't really
either have a budget

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or I was never shared
what that budget was,

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whether, you know,

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because you just had to go
ask, basically

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because in my position,
you know,

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you know,
but did you have to justify

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spending, like,
did you have to submit?

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You didn't just have a blank
check, right? Yeah. Of course.

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Yeah, but but but the
but I know the question is,

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did you share worship
in production budgets?

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And, I want to say so.

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So okay,
so breaking down in real time.

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So when my, my last church
role, I was over all the

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I think they call them
worship pastors.

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Now when I was there
they were called producers.

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So I was over all the worship

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pastors, producer,
all the campuses.

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And but I was started
lined right.

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So they started lying to me
to the global team.

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I mean, you
basically can't do anything,

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but you're their big brother.
Yeah.

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And then I was like the,
the yeah, the

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I was the influence from the

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senior daddy
global leader pastor's team.

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And but their direct report
was the campus pastor who set

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their budgets.

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So and I do know that
those budgets were combined,

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but it was being led
by one person

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who was over
worship in production.

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So they knew, you know, Sarah
at the North Campus knew.

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Hey, I have $5,000
for this quarter.

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The global team is putting
pressure down on me

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to make sure
Easter feels this way.

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They have $5,000
they have to manage for

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talent,
gear rentals, whatever.

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And they had to

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they had to split those two,
but they didn't have

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worship in production
pulling from that 5000,

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if that makes sense.
It was just their money.

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So that was
one scenario that I worked in

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for me in my role,
for how I manage budgets.

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It was all an approval thing,
so I never really knew.

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I don't think I ever knew,
maybe I did towards

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the final years of my position
because I started asking,

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but I don't think I ever,
no one ever told me,

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hey Dylan, your budgets
this for the year.

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I just would go

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ask for approval
his name and say yes or no.

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And then I started
finding loopholes

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to get around people
to get stuff done quicker,

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and that make sure
to spend it all

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or you're not gonna get it
next time.

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And I was told that I was told
if you don't spend it

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then they'll you won't get it
next. Yeah.

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Which is cool. Yeah.

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So I'm like okay
so what you spend it.

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You know,

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the one church I worked at
before that couldn't

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tell you left from right
where the money came from.

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Never knew the money came
from.

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Didn't know
how much money we ever had.

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I just knew if that individual

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wanted something,
it would get done.

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And that's what we did.

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Yeah.

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I think what you just
described is it good, like

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explanation
for how unorganized.

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No clarity.

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No. But today, running
and owning a business

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and managing clients money.

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I can tell you exactly
how our budgets are laid out.

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We've had this conversation
before.

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Nonprofits have a stick.

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They kind of have a reputation

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of not managing
managing money.

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Well,

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church is included in that.

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And a lot of
that is due to like,

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well, what's the cost of not
managing money?

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Well,
I've even had conversations

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with local technical directors
that we know

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that's been on the podcast,

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like Zach, and I'll be having

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a conversation with him
and he will

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he will say, nope,
I don't have budget for that.

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Who is that?

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Oh, okay. Yeah, he'll say,
I don't have money for that.

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I have money
set aside for this.

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If I hire you to do this

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or if I bring in this gear,
I can't.

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I gotta pull money
from this one.

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I'm like,
we never had those type

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of conversations
when we worked together.

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Then I was his leader.

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So some churches are like
very like,

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yeah, this is

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this is the dollar
that you have

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and you will be held
accountable for it.

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I just never sat
in that position.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I don't think I'm
like starting to

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in the past we've talked a lot
about like churches don't

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need more gear.

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Still think that's true.

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But I am starting to think
that most of the budget

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should be should go
should go towards gear.

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What?

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Yeah, yeah I think can I just
explain why for a little bit?

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Because I'm starting to see
a lot of churches

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under invest in systems
that will ultimately

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serve their people better.

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I don't disagree with the
with the approach.

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I just you're saying if
if there's one budget line

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right here and worship
and production

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have to share it, production
should get it for gear.

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I think that like production
oftentimes

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gets under-resourced
with with budget

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in correlation
to the worship team.

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Yeah, I agree I think yeah,
especially when a gear upgrade

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is going to enhance
what worship is able to do.

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In other words, I think
there's so much of our gear

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that does cross-pollinate
both teams.

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Sorry, one team,
but both sides of the snake.

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In other words,
if I invest in upgrading a PA

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that is truly at end of life,

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then it's
going to make the worship

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experience better
for the entire congregation.

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If I invest in a new

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camera system,

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it's going to make the video
look better,

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which is a better reflection
for our live stream

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or our in-room
Imag or whatever, versus

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if I buy a new version
of the Nord keyboard

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because it's just new
and my Nord, you know,

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whatever from five years ago
still works.

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I don't know that
people are going

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to have the same enrichment
as they would from an upgraded

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Mike pre for my aging
console or whatever,

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I think, you know, so I agree
with you to an extent.

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I guess it depends on
like what what's the worship

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team going to use the money
for if it's not for gear?

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Yeah, well,

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that's what I'm curious about

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when I'm talking to churches
and they're like,

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worship is eating up
our budget.

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I'm like, what are they
spending money on?

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Yeah, like,
what are they buying?

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Well,

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you know,
there were some times

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where I would spend
quite a bit of money on,

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you know, we would

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force with the quotations
around that word,

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team development nights
at campuses

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that someone's got paid for,
that there's food,

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there's catering,
there's whatever.

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That's not, that's not,

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that's not eating up
the budget though.

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Oh, that's
a big chunk of change

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when I have to provide
source readers for,

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you know, 60
people, 2 or $3000.

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That's team wide, though,
that should be going towards.

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Yeah, it's be benefiting.
That's everybody.

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But and I would argue

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that's some of the best money
you can spend.

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Not necessarily

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because if worship
is doing a worship night,

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not like singing and playing,
but they have like a worship,

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like if you sing, if you're on
stage this night for you

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and they're sharing budget
with production

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and they go and schedule

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this worship night
worship department team night.

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Yeah, yeah, productions aren't

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even invited to
that production.

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Should have their own two.

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Like, yeah, yeah, I get it
though, people.

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I'm just I'm just saying
that's an example

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of what they could spend
money on.

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I don't know of. Like,

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I guess
I struggle a little bit.

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I've benefited from this
in both ways.

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But like

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purchasing a guitar
for the worship

00:10:58:08 - 00:11:01:08
member worship team using
church's money.

00:11:01:18 - 00:11:03:07
You just bought me this guitar

00:11:03:07 - 00:11:04:11
that comes out of the budget,

00:11:04:11 - 00:11:06:06
but who does that guitar
actually belong to?

00:11:06:06 - 00:11:09:04
Was it run with me
when I leave? Nope.

00:11:09:04 - 00:11:09:20
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:09:20 - 00:11:10:18
I'm all about like, I'm

00:11:10:18 - 00:11:12:18
all about having great gear
for the people to.

00:11:12:18 - 00:11:14:03
Especially if

00:11:14:03 - 00:11:15:02
if you've got a volunteer

00:11:15:02 - 00:11:16:09
who doesn't
have a great guitar

00:11:16:09 - 00:11:18:23
and you can come in and have
a house drum kit or a house

00:11:18:23 - 00:11:21:08
acoustic or a house,
whatever that is

00:11:21:08 - 00:11:22:23
well maintained,
that sounds awesome.

00:11:22:23 - 00:11:24:09
That's going to benefit
everybody.

00:11:24:09 - 00:11:25:19
So that's a
that's something that worship

00:11:25:19 - 00:11:26:19
could spend their money on.

00:11:26:19 - 00:11:28:22
The thing that would get me
would be like,

00:11:28:22 - 00:11:30:11
if you're going to spend

00:11:30:11 - 00:11:34:05
thousands of dollars
on tickets, airfare, hotels,

00:11:34:05 - 00:11:38:03
meals for two people
to attend the conference,

00:11:39:05 - 00:11:39:21
and that

00:11:39:21 - 00:11:44:18
$10,000 could go toward gear
that would benefit everyone.

00:11:44:18 - 00:11:46:23
That's where it gets
a little cloudy for me.

00:11:46:23 - 00:11:48:19
That's also another example
of what worship

00:11:48:19 - 00:11:50:15
could spend
money on conferences.

00:11:50:15 - 00:11:53:15
What about like I've talked
to a lot of churches.

00:11:54:08 - 00:11:57:12
Any worship team member
will get like custom molds.

00:11:58:02 - 00:12:01:23
Yeah, that's trendy,
which is dumb to me.

00:12:02:08 - 00:12:03:12
Yeah.

00:12:03:12 - 00:12:05:10
Even 64 years
or ultimate years,

00:12:05:10 - 00:12:08:11
whatever you're you're you're
go buy two grand minimum.

00:12:08:12 - 00:12:08:18
Yeah.

00:12:08:18 - 00:12:12:22
Go by, go by 12
pairs of universal fits

00:12:13:02 - 00:12:16:02
that sound great
by foamy spirit team.

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:19:14
I don't understand why
we'd be buying people molds.

00:12:20:04 - 00:12:22:21
Yeah, I mean, I understand it,
but I'm like,

00:12:22:21 - 00:12:24:15
that should not be
taking priority

00:12:24:15 - 00:12:27:00
over some of these other
important things.

00:12:27:00 - 00:12:29:00
That's a custom piece to
I mean, ultimately

00:12:29:00 - 00:12:31:01
when you're up leaving, it's
like you take that with you.

00:12:31:01 - 00:12:33:23
That resource is now no longer
you can't reuse it

00:12:33:23 - 00:12:36:23
because you're ultimately
buying presents for your team,

00:12:37:00 - 00:12:38:23
which I don't have a problem
with. I mean, buying gifts.

00:12:38:23 - 00:12:40:06
I mean, if you're a staff,

00:12:40:06 - 00:12:42:18
if you're a staff worship
leader, okay,

00:12:42:18 - 00:12:43:21
this maybe
feels a little petty,

00:12:43:21 - 00:12:45:10
but it is interesting
because like,

00:12:45:10 - 00:12:48:21
some people could drop
4 to 5 GS on in years now.

00:12:48:22 - 00:12:50:17
Yeah, I know entire worship

00:12:50:17 - 00:12:52:16
teams have gotten custom
molds paid for by the church.

00:12:52:16 - 00:12:54:15
Okay. But like I said, worship
leader.

00:12:54:15 - 00:12:58:08
Is that like, is that a is
that necessary to do the job?

00:12:58:09 - 00:13:01:07
Like I guess so it is a kind
of a tricky thing.

00:13:01:07 - 00:13:02:10
Like you go work
for a company,

00:13:02:10 - 00:13:03:11
they're going to buy you
a computer

00:13:03:11 - 00:13:04:15
like you need a computer.

00:13:04:15 - 00:13:06:11
Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't,

00:13:06:11 - 00:13:08:05
but that computer
goes back to the company.

00:13:08:05 - 00:13:09:10
Yeah. That's what's so tricky.

00:13:09:10 - 00:13:11:17
But within yours
that's more of like a gift.

00:13:11:17 - 00:13:14:01
That's more like, hey, you're
invested in this ministry.

00:13:14:01 - 00:13:16:01
You've proven that you're here
for the long run.

00:13:16:01 - 00:13:17:05
Even if that's
another five years.

00:13:17:05 - 00:13:18:13
That's
that's considered a long run.

00:13:18:13 - 00:13:20:05
Like,
we want to give you a gift

00:13:20:05 - 00:13:22:09
for showing your faithfulness
to this organization.

00:13:22:09 - 00:13:24:12
Here's
two grand to go buy ears.

00:13:24:12 - 00:13:27:04
But that shouldn't
come out of the shared budget

00:13:27:04 - 00:13:28:03
that that leadership.

00:13:28:03 - 00:13:30:10
Look at you and go, just
take it out of your budget,

00:13:30:10 - 00:13:30:23
like, well,

00:13:30:23 - 00:13:33:11
because then as a leader
that's receiving those molds,

00:13:33:11 - 00:13:36:06
I would want
to challenge myself and go,

00:13:36:06 - 00:13:38:04
Will I really do
appreciate that gesture?

00:13:38:04 - 00:13:41:15
But I really do need that
$2,000 to go elsewhere.

00:13:41:16 - 00:13:42:15
Well, and again,

00:13:42:15 - 00:13:44:12
I'd rather by Salsa Rita's
for the whole team.

00:13:44:12 - 00:13:46:14
Yeah. And have a team night.
Yeah. Okay.

00:13:46:14 - 00:13:49:13
So you can get some great
universal fits.

00:13:49:13 - 00:13:51:07
Now that sound great.

00:13:51:07 - 00:13:53:22
Like, they they
sound great. They feel great.

00:13:57:14 - 00:13:59:10
That that
could be that could be

00:13:59:10 - 00:14:03:03
what is this year
$10,000 of expense of over

00:14:03:03 - 00:14:06:13
the next five years,
$100,000 of expense

00:14:06:13 - 00:14:08:03
depending on how large
your team is.

00:14:08:03 - 00:14:09:19
Yeah.
So so systematically here.

00:14:09:19 - 00:14:10:07
How do we

00:14:10:07 - 00:14:12:23
how do we share budget
with worship and production.

00:14:12:23 - 00:14:17:12
So my thoughts on it
a ton of communication.

00:14:17:12 - 00:14:20:15
If if you say Spencer you are

00:14:21:10 - 00:14:24:14
you set the budget for Jeff
and I I'm over the worship

00:14:24:14 - 00:14:26:21
side of our teams
and Jeff is over

00:14:26:21 - 00:14:28:18
the production
side of our teams.

00:14:28:18 - 00:14:30:14
Jeff and I
are equals in the org.

00:14:30:14 - 00:14:31:17
We're not above each other.

00:14:31:17 - 00:14:33:00
So I can't come to you
and say, hey,

00:14:33:00 - 00:14:34:11
I'm going to spend $1,000
a day.

00:14:34:11 - 00:14:36:02
Need to be okay with it.
Vice versa.

00:14:36:02 - 00:14:37:13
Well, typically
that's not common, though

00:14:37:13 - 00:14:42:13
usually the worship person is
over the production, right?

00:14:44:07 - 00:14:44:16
What?

00:14:44:16 - 00:14:45:11
What?

00:14:45:11 - 00:14:48:22
No, no, but what I am seeing
is this

00:14:49:10 - 00:14:51:11
change in shifting churches
to where there's

00:14:51:11 - 00:14:54:21
a weakened executive pastor,
and they have worship

00:14:54:21 - 00:14:57:03
and they have production
and they have creative,

00:14:57:03 - 00:14:58:23
they have comms,
they have gotcha.

00:14:58:23 - 00:15:01:18
All those individuals
are starting to be more equals

00:15:01:18 - 00:15:03:17
answering
to this elevated executive

00:15:03:17 - 00:15:05:13
over the weekend team
or creative

00:15:05:13 - 00:15:07:06
or that's
what I've been seeing.

00:15:07:06 - 00:15:07:22
Yeah okay.

00:15:07:22 - 00:15:09:23
It is different.
Every church is different.

00:15:09:23 - 00:15:13:15
But I'm I'm setting all this
up to ask the questions

00:15:13:15 - 00:15:16:09
for a listener to go,
okay, well, here's my reality.

00:15:16:09 - 00:15:17:18
I have to share a budget
with worship.

00:15:17:18 - 00:15:19:05
And we have issues.

00:15:19:05 - 00:15:20:21
So systematically,
what systems

00:15:20:21 - 00:15:23:07
can we put in place
to make sure that I don't

00:15:23:07 - 00:15:24:14
wake up on a Tuesday
getting ready

00:15:24:14 - 00:15:25:20
to purchase
something on Wednesday and go,

00:15:25:20 - 00:15:27:10
where did all the money
money left?

00:15:27:10 - 00:15:28:14
Who spent this money?

00:15:28:14 - 00:15:31:20
So what kind of spreads do
we need to create?

00:15:31:21 - 00:15:35:10
What kind of communication
channels do we need to create?

00:15:35:11 - 00:15:37:06
What kind of conversations do
we need to start having?

00:15:37:06 - 00:15:40:06
What kind of weekly recap do
we need to have to make sure

00:15:40:09 - 00:15:42:21
I'm not spending all the money
that Jeff also needs to run

00:15:42:21 - 00:15:45:04
his ministry is communication
and accountability.

00:15:45:04 - 00:15:46:19
So what
does that look like? Yeah.

00:15:49:19 - 00:15:50:03
Yeah.

00:15:50:03 - 00:15:50:21
It's interesting.

00:15:50:21 - 00:15:53:19
I'm finding this big brother
little brother mentality

00:15:53:19 - 00:15:54:22
whether they're equals or not.

00:15:54:22 - 00:15:57:22
It's like,
okay, worship has this.

00:15:58:19 - 00:16:01:07
Sometimes they're better
with conversation

00:16:01:07 - 00:16:02:05
with people as well.

00:16:02:05 - 00:16:05:04
So they have this ability
with that executive leader,

00:16:05:04 - 00:16:08:12
like making a better case
than, than tech does.

00:16:08:12 - 00:16:09:11
So I think you're totally
right.

00:16:09:11 - 00:16:12:15
Like communicating
with one another one another.

00:16:12:22 - 00:16:15:22
Yeah. How do we make that?

00:16:16:00 - 00:16:18:17
I don't know the answer yet,
but that's where I'm just

00:16:18:17 - 00:16:22:15
saying my own personal bias
is toward gear.

00:16:22:15 - 00:16:24:04
It's towards

00:16:24:04 - 00:16:25:14
yes, towards systems

00:16:25:14 - 00:16:28:01
that ultimately
will serve our people better.

00:16:28:01 - 00:16:31:01
I think what we're seeing.

00:16:32:05 - 00:16:34:02
I mean, let's just think
about, like, how much

00:16:34:02 - 00:16:35:07
coin can people drop on,

00:16:35:07 - 00:16:38:14
like subscriptions
now with like tracks and like,

00:16:38:14 - 00:16:39:21
you can get a lot

00:16:39:21 - 00:16:43:10
you can drop a lot of money
on these on these things

00:16:43:19 - 00:16:46:18
on the worship side,
especially when you're

00:16:46:18 - 00:16:47:14
on the production side.

00:16:47:14 - 00:16:47:20
I mean,

00:16:47:20 - 00:16:51:16
I wouldn't put it past worship
guys waking up and going,

00:16:51:17 - 00:16:52:19
where did all of our money go?

00:16:52:19 - 00:16:54:04
Because production
has been at all.

00:16:54:04 - 00:16:55:11
I mean, I wouldn't
put it past that either.

00:16:55:11 - 00:16:56:21
I still think
there's a system issue.

00:16:56:21 - 00:17:00:10
I still think we're missing
planning and calendaring.

00:17:00:11 - 00:17:01:20
Like,
why can't a leader sit down

00:17:01:20 - 00:17:02:15
and look at the quarter

00:17:02:15 - 00:17:04:23
and go, hey,
over the next three months,

00:17:04:23 - 00:17:06:16
we know
this conference is coming up.

00:17:06:16 - 00:17:08:16
We know this
special engagements coming up

00:17:08:16 - 00:17:09:10
because it's Easter.

00:17:09:10 - 00:17:11:11
We know Easter doesn't
fall in July.

00:17:11:11 - 00:17:11:16
Yeah.

00:17:11:16 - 00:17:14:09
Here's yeah here's here's
where I tend to fall more

00:17:14:09 - 00:17:15:14
on the production
side of things.

00:17:15:14 - 00:17:18:14
It's like okay, worship
just got new guitars.

00:17:18:23 - 00:17:20:20
They just got in.

00:17:20:20 - 00:17:23:17
They just built
a new tracks rig.

00:17:23:17 - 00:17:26:04
But the PA sucks.

00:17:26:04 - 00:17:28:14
So like,
what are we doing here?

00:17:28:14 - 00:17:30:07
Like, I'm super glad
that you guys are pumped

00:17:30:07 - 00:17:32:06
on, like,
all your new stuff, but, like,

00:17:32:06 - 00:17:33:04
the mix is horrible.

00:17:33:04 - 00:17:35:10
It's really helping
the environment. Nothing's.

00:17:35:10 - 00:17:37:08
This isn't move
the needle at all.

00:17:37:08 - 00:17:38:03
I'm with you. But.

00:17:38:03 - 00:17:40:09
So how do we prevent that?

00:17:40:09 - 00:17:42:21
The value to add here is
we got to prevent that.

00:17:42:21 - 00:17:45:00
We need to prevent

00:17:45:00 - 00:17:47:05
worship team buying things
that aren't necessary.

00:17:47:05 - 00:17:48:12
That doesn't help the church.

00:17:48:12 - 00:17:50:03
We need to prevent
production team

00:17:50:03 - 00:17:52:13
from buying things that are
that are unnecessary.

00:17:52:13 - 00:17:53:14
That doesn't help the church.

00:17:53:14 - 00:17:56:17
And we need to fix
the communications there.

00:17:57:01 - 00:17:57:06
Yeah.

00:17:57:06 - 00:17:58:09
And the only way

00:17:58:09 - 00:17:59:20
and I think
maybe this is where you're

00:17:59:20 - 00:18:02:03
when you're like, hey, can we
talk about the solution?

00:18:02:03 - 00:18:03:06
How do we get there?

00:18:04:18 - 00:18:06:10
I don't know if it's

00:18:06:10 - 00:18:09:10
if there is another solution
besides the the tech

00:18:09:10 - 00:18:11:15
leader raising their level of

00:18:11:15 - 00:18:13:03
leadership
and how they communicate

00:18:13:03 - 00:18:16:03
some of these problems
and their ministry.

00:18:16:22 - 00:18:19:08
And part of the issue is
that for the worship leader,

00:18:19:08 - 00:18:21:14
the worship leaders
have an issue with the tech.

00:18:21:14 - 00:18:24:16
Yeah, I'm just saying,
like I see, I personally

00:18:24:16 - 00:18:27:16
my bias is I think tech
is under-resourced

00:18:28:10 - 00:18:31:14
to execute what needs
to get done at the level

00:18:31:14 - 00:18:33:03
that the organization
wants to get it done.

00:18:33:03 - 00:18:35:03
Because part of the problem
is a lot of

00:18:35:03 - 00:18:40:05
what's needed from production
sometimes is stuff

00:18:40:05 - 00:18:43:05
that you'll never notice
or see.

00:18:43:18 - 00:18:46:11
We need to upgrade our network
infrastructure.

00:18:46:11 - 00:18:48:18
We need to upgrade our house
lights.

00:18:48:18 - 00:18:52:08
We need to upgrade our
whatever, whatever, whatever

00:18:52:09 - 00:18:52:20
that.

00:18:52:20 - 00:18:55:15
It's not a new PA, it's
not a new console.

00:18:55:15 - 00:18:58:07
It's not anything that anybody
is ever going to hear.

00:18:58:07 - 00:19:00:00
But like,

00:19:00:00 - 00:19:03:11
there's a big church in
Atlanta that I was a part of

00:19:03:12 - 00:19:05:06
from the very beginning,
that they

00:19:05:06 - 00:19:09:04
have systems in their facility
that are 15 years old

00:19:09:04 - 00:19:14:17
that had to be replaced,
that they had to do, you know,

00:19:14:19 - 00:19:18:01
special funding campaign
for some of these things.

00:19:18:01 - 00:19:19:13
And gratefully,

00:19:19:13 - 00:19:22:21
the membership and the people
who give to the church,

00:19:23:11 - 00:19:25:15
it was vision
was cast in the right way

00:19:25:15 - 00:19:27:14
so that they could go,
you know what?

00:19:27:14 - 00:19:30:09
It is time for this stuff
because our

00:19:30:09 - 00:19:31:13
we've been limping along

00:19:31:13 - 00:19:33:02
so that we could

00:19:33:02 - 00:19:34:05
build other campuses

00:19:34:05 - 00:19:36:13
so that we could invest
in missions so that we could

00:19:36:13 - 00:19:37:11
build partnerships.

00:19:37:11 - 00:19:40:17
And so some of this stuff in
our own house got neglected.

00:19:40:17 - 00:19:42:01
It's time to step up.

00:19:42:01 - 00:19:44:03
And so
because the vision was cast

00:19:44:03 - 00:19:45:14
in a way that was compelling,

00:19:45:14 - 00:19:47:06
because otherwise,
if you don't,

00:19:47:06 - 00:19:49:21
then you spend all this money
and somebody who's tithing

00:19:49:21 - 00:19:52:23
looks at you and goes,
you did what, with my money

00:19:53:17 - 00:19:56:11
like stuff, I'll never see
the benefit from stuff

00:19:56:11 - 00:19:58:11
that will never impact
my grandkids.

00:19:58:11 - 00:20:01:09
Well, it will, but you don't
see it, like in the way

00:20:01:09 - 00:20:04:16
that you would,
new LED wall or a new PA.

00:20:04:17 - 00:20:07:21
So it's like, again, it's all
about how it's communicated.

00:20:07:21 - 00:20:12:19
But there are some things
that are needful, upgrades

00:20:12:21 - 00:20:17:03
that aren't sexy at all
that require

00:20:17:04 - 00:20:18:04
some hard conversations.

00:20:18:04 - 00:20:20:06
So I think for that
production person,

00:20:20:06 - 00:20:21:09
for that production leader

00:20:21:09 - 00:20:22:12
to have the

00:20:22:12 - 00:20:23:21
ability to communicate

00:20:23:21 - 00:20:26:22
those needs in a way
that can make it compelling,

00:20:26:22 - 00:20:29:10
in spite of the fact
that it's not compelling,

00:20:29:10 - 00:20:32:02
is very difficult,
but it's important

00:20:32:02 - 00:20:32:20
because you want that

00:20:32:20 - 00:20:36:17
infrastructure to be in place
so that you can build on it,

00:20:36:17 - 00:20:38:17
because otherwise you're
just putting

00:20:38:17 - 00:20:42:08
duct tape on a broken system
that no matter,

00:20:42:09 - 00:20:43:20
no matter how much lipstick

00:20:43:20 - 00:20:45:21
you put on it,
it's still an ugly pig

00:20:45:21 - 00:20:47:18
at the end of the day.

00:20:47:18 - 00:20:50:09
Hey, I want to take a quick
break and tell you about MQ.

00:20:50:09 - 00:20:52:05
MQ is the one platform
that you need

00:20:52:05 - 00:20:53:19
to run your worship
and tech ministry.

00:20:53:19 - 00:20:54:22
We do it through helping you

00:20:54:22 - 00:20:56:08
train your volunteers
with thousands

00:20:56:08 - 00:20:58:18
of training videos
and automated pathways.

00:20:58:18 - 00:21:02:05
We help you plan your weekend
services with team messaging,

00:21:02:06 - 00:21:04:21
task management,
and automated scheduling.

00:21:04:21 - 00:21:06:21
And then lastly,
we help you actually run

00:21:06:21 - 00:21:08:06
and execute Sunday

00:21:08:06 - 00:21:10:19
with dashboards that connect
all the tools that you

00:21:10:19 - 00:21:12:16
currently use into one place.

00:21:12:16 - 00:21:15:05
If you want to learn more
about it, you can head to get.

00:21:15:05 - 00:21:16:12
Now back to the show.

00:21:16:12 - 00:21:20:10
Yeah, several several
thoughts on a lot of that.

00:21:20:12 - 00:21:21:12
Yeah, a lot of,

00:21:21:12 - 00:21:24:07
you know, for the production
individual to

00:21:24:07 - 00:21:27:07
to be overly
prepared to and show that

00:21:27:14 - 00:21:30:15
I have some sort
of a business mindset.

00:21:30:15 - 00:21:33:17
I know how to be prepared
for a budget meeting.

00:21:33:22 - 00:21:34:22
Here's how.

00:21:34:22 - 00:21:36:08
Here's
how I'm going to be prepared.

00:21:36:08 - 00:21:37:15
I'm going to have

00:21:37:15 - 00:21:40:22
all of my gear inventoried out
with with dates on it.

00:21:40:23 - 00:21:42:20
Hey, pastor,
I want you to know,

00:21:42:20 - 00:21:44:16
as we set our budgets
for the year,

00:21:44:16 - 00:21:47:23
our consoles that we use
in our main auditorium, main

00:21:48:00 - 00:21:52:11
worship center, sanctuary,
we've had it for a decade.

00:21:52:12 - 00:21:53:13
It's end of life.

00:21:53:13 - 00:21:57:06
So there may be a time in
the next year that we need an.

00:21:57:06 - 00:21:58:20
I understand our shared budget
with worship,

00:21:58:20 - 00:22:00:20
and I understand they need
things that are upgraded to.

00:22:00:20 - 00:22:01:16
I'm not trying to

00:22:01:16 - 00:22:05:11
advocate my case over theirs,
but as this worship

00:22:05:11 - 00:22:07:13
individual is sitting here,
we've already talked.

00:22:07:13 - 00:22:08:17
We are already in agreement

00:22:08:17 - 00:22:10:20
because we've had a meeting
before, this very important

00:22:10:20 - 00:22:12:13
budget meeting,
that we're on the same page

00:22:12:13 - 00:22:15:18
because we share a budget
that we both agree

00:22:16:12 - 00:22:18:21
a console probably is coming
over the next 12 months.

00:22:18:21 - 00:22:20:05
And here's
what this thing's breaks.

00:22:20:05 - 00:22:21:01
We don't have a service.

00:22:21:01 - 00:22:22:07
And here's
what it's going to cost.

00:22:22:07 - 00:22:24:05
So as a pastor executive team
member

00:22:24:05 - 00:22:26:03
that that has to answer
to boards

00:22:26:03 - 00:22:28:12
and lead teams and elders
and decide those

00:22:28:12 - 00:22:30:22
and where that money
is coming from with donors,

00:22:30:22 - 00:22:33:05
they they are going to
those meetings going,

00:22:33:05 - 00:22:35:12
hey, our worship
pastor and production

00:22:35:12 - 00:22:38:13
leader just told us
that we need to put money

00:22:38:13 - 00:22:41:12
aside this year
for a console, right?

00:22:41:12 - 00:22:43:06
It's that level of preparation

00:22:43:06 - 00:22:44:17
that come in
with a business mind.

00:22:44:17 - 00:22:46:23
Because executive pastors are
business minded individuals.

00:22:46:23 - 00:22:49:05
Most of them are
the ones I've worked with.

00:22:49:05 - 00:22:50:07
And so they want to know that,

00:22:50:07 - 00:22:51:13
hey, you want to talk
big money?

00:22:51:13 - 00:22:53:16
You need to make sure you know
how to handle big money.

00:22:53:16 - 00:22:56:13
At least that's how I was
taught from my EP.

00:22:56:13 - 00:22:59:11
Another thought out of that,
though, with fixing things

00:22:59:11 - 00:23:02:20
that people see, you know,
as a leadership lesson.

00:23:02:21 - 00:23:03:22
You know, Mayor Giuliani

00:23:03:22 - 00:23:04:14
from New York

00:23:04:14 - 00:23:07:05
when he first became mayor,
they said,

00:23:07:05 - 00:23:08:13
what are the first things
you're going to do?

00:23:08:13 - 00:23:09:13
And he says, I'm going to fix

00:23:09:13 - 00:23:11:16
all the broken windows
in the city of New York,

00:23:11:16 - 00:23:13:21
because that's
what people see.

00:23:13:21 - 00:23:14:23
So, right,
there's a whole other

00:23:14:23 - 00:23:15:23
leadership lesson out of that.

00:23:15:23 - 00:23:17:18
But then they said, well,
what about the broken

00:23:17:18 - 00:23:19:17
school systems
and the sewage backup?

00:23:19:17 - 00:23:21:17
And people don't see that

00:23:21:17 - 00:23:23:12
fix the things
that people notice and see.

00:23:23:12 - 00:23:27:00
And you you will be portrayed
as a good leader under trust.

00:23:27:05 - 00:23:28:10
But but you do.

00:23:28:10 - 00:23:29:02
But often

00:23:29:02 - 00:23:29:10
if you

00:23:29:10 - 00:23:32:15
neglect the foundation of why
the windows are broken

00:23:32:15 - 00:23:34:19
and you don't fix
the school system, you don't.

00:23:34:19 - 00:23:36:12
And then that's when you're
exposed as a bad leader.

00:23:36:12 - 00:23:38:18
So there's all kinds of things
to break down in that.

00:23:38:18 - 00:23:41:08
But yeah, to me, I mean, I

00:23:41:08 - 00:23:43:02
if if I'm stepping

00:23:43:02 - 00:23:45:19
foot in an environment
and they're asking

00:23:45:19 - 00:23:47:02
how much money do we need
this next

00:23:47:02 - 00:23:48:09
year, I'd be like, well,
I need to go

00:23:48:09 - 00:23:50:17
have ten different
conversations

00:23:50:17 - 00:23:54:01
with leaders
and trusted advisors

00:23:54:01 - 00:23:55:22
within the congregation
to better understand

00:23:55:22 - 00:23:57:18
what are our pain points,

00:23:57:18 - 00:24:00:18
because maybe we don't need
any money this year,

00:24:01:05 - 00:24:02:18
or maybe
we need a lot of money.

00:24:02:18 - 00:24:05:03
Sometimes I feel like
I really understand

00:24:05:03 - 00:24:09:23
the argument of, or the concept of we need to proactively,

00:24:10:22 - 00:24:13:06
you know,
assess, okay, this wins.

00:24:13:06 - 00:24:14:04
This console going to die.

00:24:14:04 - 00:24:16:06
I just think a lot of
churches are really far off

00:24:16:06 - 00:24:17:12
from being able
to operate like that.

00:24:17:12 - 00:24:18:07
And I don't even know

00:24:18:07 - 00:24:20:05
if it's really reasonable to

00:24:20:05 - 00:24:21:17
expect some nonprofits

00:24:21:17 - 00:24:24:00
to operate like that,
because it's like there are

00:24:24:00 - 00:24:27:18
like real lives in front of us
right now that need money.

00:24:28:05 - 00:24:30:21
Oh, but our console is going
to die ten years from now.

00:24:30:21 - 00:24:31:17
So we need it's like,

00:24:31:17 - 00:24:34:14
I just don't know if that's
ultimately realistic.

00:24:34:14 - 00:24:36:10
I'm not saying
it's a bad approach,

00:24:36:10 - 00:24:38:11
but I do think, like,
we're not really good

00:24:38:11 - 00:24:41:01
at assessing
the pain on the weekend.

00:24:41:01 - 00:24:44:01
Like what
what what is the problem?

00:24:44:13 - 00:24:46:14
Our drums too loud. Okay.

00:24:46:14 - 00:24:48:03
We probably need an enclosure.

00:24:48:03 - 00:24:49:02
Go buy the enclosure.

00:24:49:02 - 00:24:51:13
Don't go buy
new ears or guitars.

00:24:51:13 - 00:24:53:03
Like sometimes
we don't even like.

00:24:53:03 - 00:24:54:23
We're not really good
at assessing

00:24:54:23 - 00:24:55:22
where are the problems.

00:24:55:22 - 00:24:58:05
And ultimately here on earth,
like money can solve

00:24:58:05 - 00:24:59:07
a lot of problems.

00:24:59:07 - 00:25:03:05
So let's just identify
where the problems are first.

00:25:03:05 - 00:25:04:23
And maybe all the problems

00:25:04:23 - 00:25:07:02
are on the worship side,
or all the problems

00:25:07:02 - 00:25:08:16
are on the technical side.

00:25:09:15 - 00:25:10:05
Who knows.

00:25:10:05 - 00:25:12:06
So I think every organization
it is different.

00:25:12:06 - 00:25:14:15
I'm just saying
more often than not, I see

00:25:14:15 - 00:25:15:18
we're not good at assessing

00:25:15:18 - 00:25:16:19
problems
on the technical side.

00:25:16:19 - 00:25:19:16
We're like, oh, well, that's
just how it is.

00:25:19:16 - 00:25:21:23
It's training people, okay.

00:25:21:23 - 00:25:25:02
We we keep having the same
mistakes happen

00:25:25:02 - 00:25:25:15
over and over again.

00:25:25:15 - 00:25:27:18
Well, you can spend money
on solutions like you.

00:25:27:18 - 00:25:30:00
Shameless plug
to train your people.

00:25:30:00 - 00:25:30:17
Yeah, right.

00:25:30:17 - 00:25:34:19
Like, oh, we're over
overcomplicating our systems.

00:25:35:03 - 00:25:36:15
Okay,
so we've actually overspent

00:25:36:15 - 00:25:40:11
in some ways
maybe that are causing issues.

00:25:41:03 - 00:25:42:11
So I don't know.

00:25:42:11 - 00:25:44:15
I think everybody
that's going to be different.

00:25:44:15 - 00:25:46:05
But I do think that

00:25:46:05 - 00:25:47:22
we're not good
at just assessing the problems

00:25:47:22 - 00:25:49:23
and realizing that money
can solve those problems.

00:25:49:23 - 00:25:51:16
And what I more often
than not see

00:25:51:16 - 00:25:54:16
is, okay,
our biggest problem is our PA,

00:25:54:16 - 00:25:56:18
but that's
a six figure expense,

00:25:57:21 - 00:26:00:00
which proves my point of.

00:26:00:00 - 00:26:02:06
But think about this. Don't
you tell me to shut up.

00:26:02:06 - 00:26:04:04
Well,
I get what you're saying.

00:26:04:04 - 00:26:06:13
I get what you're saying.
But we're here and now, right?

00:26:06:13 - 00:26:09:03
Like we can solve.

00:26:09:03 - 00:26:09:23
Yeah, we could get to that.

00:26:09:23 - 00:26:13:02
But six
figure expense to fix PA.

00:26:13:04 - 00:26:15:11
So then what?
I typically see tech people.

00:26:15:11 - 00:26:16:18
Well, I'm going
to spend the money either way.

00:26:16:18 - 00:26:18:10
So I'm going to buy waves rig

00:26:18:10 - 00:26:20:01
and I'm
going to buy this thing.

00:26:20:01 - 00:26:23:08
And we make all these dumb
purchases that we don't need

00:26:23:08 - 00:26:24:04
because the money is there

00:26:24:04 - 00:26:26:05
and somebody says spend it
or else it goes.

00:26:26:05 - 00:26:28:05
Yeah,
well, on waves is not dumb.

00:26:28:05 - 00:26:30:09
Second,
but you get what I'm saying.

00:26:30:09 - 00:26:31:09
You may not need that,

00:26:31:09 - 00:26:34:18
but I think the like there's
another layer of that too

00:26:34:19 - 00:26:38:02
that goes, okay,
the PA is not performing.

00:26:38:02 - 00:26:39:14
We need to replace the PA.

00:26:39:14 - 00:26:41:10
Okay. Well,
when the PA went in.

00:26:41:10 - 00:26:43:03
Did you ever think about
acoustics?

00:26:43:03 - 00:26:44:17
Did you ever think about room
shape?

00:26:44:17 - 00:26:47:10
Did you ever actually have
a responsible,

00:26:47:10 - 00:26:48:18
knowledgeable integrator

00:26:48:18 - 00:26:51:04
that could actually make
a recommendation that would

00:26:51:04 - 00:26:52:19
make your PA last longer?

00:26:52:19 - 00:26:54:03
Because sometimes.

00:26:54:03 - 00:26:55:22
And the other thing is,

00:26:55:22 - 00:26:57:21
you get a new guy
who gets hired

00:26:57:21 - 00:26:59:06
and he comes in insisting

00:26:59:06 - 00:27:01:14
on a particular console
or a particular PA,

00:27:01:14 - 00:27:03:11
so they do an upgrade
and doesn't

00:27:03:11 - 00:27:05:02
change
anything about the sound.

00:27:05:02 - 00:27:06:08
It's like, well,
it was his preference.

00:27:06:08 - 00:27:08:03
Or he saw the bright,
shiny new toy

00:27:08:03 - 00:27:10:01
and figure out
he had to have it in the mix.

00:27:10:01 - 00:27:10:23
Still sucks.

00:27:10:23 - 00:27:11:08
It's like,

00:27:11:08 - 00:27:15:00
okay, well, that's either
he's an incompetent engineer

00:27:15:02 - 00:27:16:14
or there's

00:27:16:14 - 00:27:18:07
a fundamental problem
in your room

00:27:18:07 - 00:27:20:14
that's not going to be fixed
by a console.

00:27:20:14 - 00:27:24:19
So there's so many things that
are facets of this problem

00:27:25:00 - 00:27:29:16
that just just throwing money
at stuff is not going to fix.

00:27:29:22 - 00:27:32:22
So it's like we've got to do
a better job

00:27:32:22 - 00:27:35:22
of assessing like, okay,
what's the fundamental issue?

00:27:36:05 - 00:27:40:21
Because there are things
I can imagine scenarios where,

00:27:41:13 - 00:27:42:04
oh gosh,

00:27:42:04 - 00:27:43:19
every time
pastor hits the stage,

00:27:43:19 - 00:27:45:19
there's feedback on his mic,
okay,

00:27:45:19 - 00:27:47:15
maybe
we do need to invest in waves.

00:27:47:15 - 00:27:49:01
Maybe we do need D feedback.

00:27:49:01 - 00:27:51:02
Maybe we do need something
to assess

00:27:51:02 - 00:27:52:21
and fix that
particular problem.

00:27:52:21 - 00:27:55:12
But again,

00:27:55:12 - 00:27:57:10
not knowing what the problem
is in the first place

00:27:57:10 - 00:27:58:17
or what's causing the problem

00:27:58:17 - 00:28:00:08
I think causes
a lot of problems.

00:28:00:08 - 00:28:00:20
Yeah, well,

00:28:00:20 - 00:28:02:20
there's a lot of optimization
happening

00:28:02:20 - 00:28:04:21
while we're avoiding
glaring problems

00:28:04:21 - 00:28:08:04
on the big on the big budget
line on I'm not to go back to

00:28:08:15 - 00:28:09:18
I'm, you know. Yeah.

00:28:09:18 - 00:28:13:15
Now I'm arguing with you
on the big budget line items

00:28:14:00 - 00:28:16:19
as a business owner
or as an executive pastor

00:28:16:19 - 00:28:19:16
who's over the budget
to his elders and league team.

00:28:19:16 - 00:28:21:23
If a production person
or worship

00:28:21:23 - 00:28:25:15
staff member comes to me
and says, we need a new P.A.,

00:28:25:16 - 00:28:27:15
we've already got it priced
out, don't worry about it.

00:28:27:15 - 00:28:30:22
And it's $130,000
and we should probably get it

00:28:30:22 - 00:28:32:20
pretty soon. I'm going to go.

00:28:32:20 - 00:28:34:14
You just
you just figured this out.

00:28:34:14 - 00:28:36:02
You just need a new P.A..

00:28:36:02 - 00:28:36:23
You couldn't have come to me

00:28:36:23 - 00:28:37:13
12 months ago

00:28:37:13 - 00:28:40:14
and gave me a heads up like,
hey, over the next 12 months,

00:28:40:18 - 00:28:41:21
we're probably going
to have the best.

00:28:41:21 - 00:28:42:04
So I could

00:28:42:04 - 00:28:45:04
have been intentionally
putting money aside to, to to.

00:28:45:04 - 00:28:46:21
Now I have to go to our,

00:28:48:01 - 00:28:50:09
our lead team and say,
because you're the expert.

00:28:50:09 - 00:28:51:06
I'm not the expert.

00:28:51:06 - 00:28:52:15
I don't know
if we knew or not.

00:28:52:15 - 00:28:54:10
You're telling me
we need to pay, I trust you.

00:28:54:10 - 00:28:56:15
Now I have to come up with six
figures.

00:28:56:15 - 00:28:58:14
Yeah, like that's
what I'm trying to prevent.

00:28:58:14 - 00:28:58:19
So. Yeah.

00:28:58:19 - 00:28:59:15
And here's here's where.

00:28:59:15 - 00:28:59:20
Well,

00:28:59:20 - 00:29:00:04
you better

00:29:00:04 - 00:29:00:23
be able to justify

00:29:00:23 - 00:29:02:09
what's wrong
with the current PA,

00:29:02:09 - 00:29:04:11
and you better be able
to justify.

00:29:04:11 - 00:29:05:22
But even if you come up
with a drawing, current

00:29:05:22 - 00:29:08:03
PA executive partners going,
I think the PA is great.

00:29:08:03 - 00:29:10:03
Yeah. Vulnerable.
That's what I'm saying.

00:29:10:03 - 00:29:12:14
Yeah. You got you got to
address the vulnerability.

00:29:12:14 - 00:29:18:07
So like in technical ministry
there are like five

00:29:19:02 - 00:29:20:07
maybe not even more than five.

00:29:20:07 - 00:29:23:07
Like five like really
expensive vulnerabilities.

00:29:23:08 - 00:29:23:20
Right.

00:29:23:20 - 00:29:26:20
Thinking PA yeah,
I think a console,

00:29:27:02 - 00:29:30:13
maybe screens
like stuff like that.

00:29:30:14 - 00:29:31:01
Right.

00:29:31:01 - 00:29:33:05
Like, what are your,
what's your short list of,

00:29:33:05 - 00:29:35:08
like, high ticket
vulnerabilities?

00:29:35:08 - 00:29:37:07
And I totally agree with you
where you can say, hey,

00:29:37:07 - 00:29:38:09
just so you know,

00:29:38:09 - 00:29:39:08
we're outside of warranty

00:29:39:08 - 00:29:43:00
on this item or we're
still using a, you know,

00:29:43:23 - 00:29:46:21
LRS nine and in this one room.

00:29:46:21 - 00:29:49:21
And like, it could go any day.

00:29:49:22 - 00:29:52:04
So just know like

00:29:52:04 - 00:29:54:01
and to replace that you know

00:29:54:01 - 00:29:54:16
we're probably looking

00:29:54:16 - 00:29:57:00
at $10,000 for a new console
okay.

00:29:57:00 - 00:29:59:21
So we have $10,000
of vulnerability here.

00:29:59:21 - 00:30:03:05
We've got you know PA
that's 15 years old

00:30:03:05 - 00:30:07:10
and we're replacing woofers
every quarter like it's, it's

00:30:07:23 - 00:30:12:03
it is holding on by a thread
vulnerability here.

00:30:12:04 - 00:30:13:05
Right. So I agree with you.

00:30:13:05 - 00:30:16:15
Their
churches aren't going to

00:30:16:20 - 00:30:18:04
I haven't talked
to many churches

00:30:18:04 - 00:30:19:19
that have the funds

00:30:19:19 - 00:30:20:21
to just like

00:30:20:21 - 00:30:23:15
have a savings account
for those things, right?

00:30:23:15 - 00:30:24:17
Like they're not like, oh,

00:30:24:17 - 00:30:25:17
well, it's a good thing

00:30:25:17 - 00:30:27:19
that we've been saving
for six years,

00:30:27:19 - 00:30:32:07
and we have $120,000
sitting in a count for a PA

00:30:32:07 - 00:30:33:13
like I just don't,

00:30:33:13 - 00:30:36:03
especially when things
like benevolence and,

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:37:12
yeah,
real needs in the community

00:30:37:12 - 00:30:39:14
and all those things
are continually happening.

00:30:39:14 - 00:30:41:02
It's like they're, you know,

00:30:41:02 - 00:30:45:04
the the purpose of this place
is not to provide a stage

00:30:45:04 - 00:30:45:17
for a show.

00:30:45:17 - 00:30:48:09
The purpose of this place
is to serve the community.

00:30:48:09 - 00:30:52:22
So those things,
like if those things come up,

00:30:52:22 - 00:30:53:15
they're going to

00:30:53:15 - 00:30:57:01
they're going to throw money
at the tornado relief or the

00:30:57:19 - 00:30:59:09
Single Mothers
Fund or whatever it is.

00:30:59:09 - 00:30:59:23
It's like,

00:30:59:23 - 00:31:01:08
so they're not going to have

00:31:01:08 - 00:31:04:08
gobs of money in the bank
just waiting to be spent.

00:31:04:08 - 00:31:06:04
But I think to your point,

00:31:06:04 - 00:31:08:14
there is some forward
looking that needs to happen

00:31:08:14 - 00:31:10:12
so that there's
at least a red,

00:31:10:12 - 00:31:11:21
there's
at least a flag that goes,

00:31:11:21 - 00:31:12:16
I think that

00:31:12:16 - 00:31:14:03
churches are have billions
and billions

00:31:14:03 - 00:31:16:05
and billions
of dollars of debt in America,

00:31:16:05 - 00:31:18:00
because they don't know
how to plan out.

00:31:18:00 - 00:31:20:00
I just have such a hard time.

00:31:20:00 - 00:31:21:16
I don't disagree
with your approach.

00:31:21:16 - 00:31:23:19
I have such a hard time

00:31:23:19 - 00:31:27:04
just looking at that going,
why are we so immature?

00:31:27:04 - 00:31:28:15
I get it, benevolence,
all that

00:31:28:15 - 00:31:30:00
and we should have funds
for that.

00:31:30:00 - 00:31:31:09
But when I show up to a church

00:31:31:09 - 00:31:34:01
and they're creating a brand
new AC unit

00:31:34:01 - 00:31:35:15
that's
going on top of the building,

00:31:36:15 - 00:31:38:22
I'm like, they have
to have their conditioner.

00:31:38:22 - 00:31:41:02
Yeah, it really does.
It really does depend on size.

00:31:41:02 - 00:31:42:22
So where did the money.

00:31:42:22 - 00:31:44:09
Yeah come from.

00:31:44:09 - 00:31:46:01
And then I go
and have a conversation.

00:31:46:01 - 00:31:47:03
This is a real story
by the way.

00:31:47:03 - 00:31:48:21
I go have a conversation
with the executive pastor

00:31:48:21 - 00:31:53:03
and say jokingly
like I can't get

00:31:53:09 - 00:31:57:05
I can't get this, but we can
just flop on a new AC unit

00:31:57:05 - 00:32:00:12
that I know is probably a six
figure unit to, you know.

00:32:00:13 - 00:32:02:21
And he's like, well,
I'll tell you the truth.

00:32:02:21 - 00:32:03:11
And you tell me this.

00:32:03:11 - 00:32:04:19
I tell you the truth, Dylan,

00:32:04:19 - 00:32:05:15
our facilities

00:32:05:15 - 00:32:08:09
guy at the time,
he came to me and said,

00:32:08:09 - 00:32:10:15
we need to place a new AC unit
over the next 12 months.

00:32:10:15 - 00:32:12:19
So we put money aside
and we bought a new AC unit.

00:32:12:19 - 00:32:13:15
You've never done that.

00:32:13:15 - 00:32:16:12
One time you come to me and
say, we need a new console.

00:32:16:12 - 00:32:19:01
It's going to cost me $45,000.
And I got to come today.

00:32:19:01 - 00:32:20:15
I got to come up
with the money this week.

00:32:20:15 - 00:32:21:17
That's not realistic.

00:32:21:17 - 00:32:23:20
So obviously lived
those real scenarios.

00:32:23:20 - 00:32:25:17
I'm just like, why can't we?

00:32:25:17 - 00:32:27:20
Yeah, that's
why it's super valid.

00:32:27:20 - 00:32:29:01
And I think when we're talking

00:32:29:01 - 00:32:30:21
six months
it's different than six years.

00:32:30:21 - 00:32:31:02
Okay.

00:32:31:02 - 00:32:31:19
Yeah 100

00:32:31:19 - 00:32:33:04
because
and we also have to understand

00:32:33:04 - 00:32:35:13
the nature of nonprofits
within a fiscal year.

00:32:35:13 - 00:32:38:21
Unless you're really creative,
you got to burn the money.

00:32:39:01 - 00:32:40:12
You can't just keep the money.

00:32:40:12 - 00:32:41:04
Right? Yeah.

00:32:41:04 - 00:32:44:09
So you six months is a lot
different than six years.

00:32:44:10 - 00:32:44:18
Totally.

00:32:44:18 - 00:32:45:17
And I totally agree.

00:32:45:17 - 00:32:48:07
But I think think about this.

00:32:48:07 - 00:32:50:11
Go back to
we can go trace it back

00:32:50:11 - 00:32:51:20
to like
the American household.

00:32:52:20 - 00:32:55:02
Some Americans

00:32:55:02 - 00:32:57:08
have enough wealth
that they're like,

00:32:57:08 - 00:33:00:08
you know, I don't need
really great health coverage.

00:33:01:09 - 00:33:04:04
You know, like,
I'm in good health.

00:33:04:04 - 00:33:06:05
If I got a bill, I'll pay it.

00:33:06:05 - 00:33:08:08
And I'll just have, like,

00:33:08:08 - 00:33:10:16
coverage to cover
if I, like, get cancer.

00:33:10:16 - 00:33:12:02
But like, I don't, I don't

00:33:12:02 - 00:33:14:15
I can handle
a high deductible,

00:33:14:15 - 00:33:17:19
whereas some others are like,
well that will capsize me

00:33:17:19 - 00:33:19:19
if I have a medical bill
come in.

00:33:19:19 - 00:33:21:18
And I think it's very similar
with the church.

00:33:21:18 - 00:33:24:17
Some churches are large enough
where they're like a

00:33:25:02 - 00:33:25:21
new AC unit.

00:33:25:21 - 00:33:28:03
Okay,
well it's going to sting,

00:33:28:03 - 00:33:29:12
but it's not going to
kill this month.

00:33:29:12 - 00:33:30:22
But we have the money

00:33:30:22 - 00:33:34:04
and some churches are like,
yeah, money.

00:33:34:05 - 00:33:36:11
Where does that come from?

00:33:36:11 - 00:33:36:17
You know,

00:33:36:17 - 00:33:37:17
some churches will be like,

00:33:37:17 - 00:33:39:02
well,
it's going to be hot on Sunday

00:33:39:02 - 00:33:41:11
and I'm going to get up in
front of the church and say,

00:33:41:11 - 00:33:42:08
it's kind of hot in here,

00:33:43:08 - 00:33:45:16
Every which do
you know what hell feels like?

00:33:45:16 - 00:33:47:23
Yeah. Pretty.

00:33:47:23 - 00:33:49:01
You know, just do that.

00:33:49:01 - 00:33:51:23
They'll be like,
it's it's in Africa, right?

00:33:51:23 - 00:33:55:03
They, they that
that culture would say

00:33:55:23 - 00:33:59:14
when the need is there,
everybody will know it all.

00:34:00:00 - 00:34:01:12
And you asked
you asked earlier

00:34:01:12 - 00:34:03:20
what are some
what are some non-negotiable.

00:34:03:20 - 00:34:04:18
What are some pain points.

00:34:04:18 - 00:34:08:15
I mean, you, you know, say
a auditorium of worship

00:34:08:15 - 00:34:11:23
center, sanctuary of 300
plus chairs.

00:34:12:04 - 00:34:14:01
Our audio console goes out.

00:34:14:01 - 00:34:15:14
Pastor ain't gonna stamp there
on the stage

00:34:15:14 - 00:34:18:19
and go over the next six weeks
off an audio console.

00:34:18:20 - 00:34:20:18
They're going to find
that money, that money,

00:34:20:18 - 00:34:22:05
because you have to have
an audio console

00:34:22:05 - 00:34:24:11
to make sure your PC works,
your microphones work.

00:34:24:11 - 00:34:25:20
So I was going to ask you
a question

00:34:25:20 - 00:34:27:21
earlier, like,
what are your like?

00:34:27:21 - 00:34:29:02
You say,
what are your pain points,

00:34:29:02 - 00:34:29:23
I think,
or what are the things

00:34:29:23 - 00:34:31:02
that are like non-negotiables?

00:34:31:02 - 00:34:33:09
I think anything that is
a switcher or a console,

00:34:33:09 - 00:34:37:19
even my opinion, even over
a PA, if that console goes,

00:34:39:11 - 00:34:41:08
they don't
matter what kind of p you got.

00:34:41:08 - 00:34:42:20
If that video switcher goes,
it doesn't matter

00:34:42:20 - 00:34:43:22
what kind of cameras you got.

00:34:43:22 - 00:34:45:05
Yeah, that lighting board
goes.

00:34:45:05 - 00:34:46:19
It doesn't matter what kind of
lighting fixtures you have.

00:34:46:19 - 00:34:48:19
But if your processors
go to as a matter of LED

00:34:48:19 - 00:34:52:18
the panels, you have
the only thing there is today.

00:34:54:02 - 00:34:56:13
Unless somebody got a midas,
they're probably not going

00:34:56:13 - 00:34:59:13
to lose their console
on a Sunday like

00:34:59:23 - 00:35:01:03
we see it.

00:35:01:03 - 00:35:04:23
Yeah, but most consoles
within the last 5 to 10 years

00:35:06:12 - 00:35:09:09
will be Jeff,
you're the audio guide,

00:35:09:09 - 00:35:10:19
the power supply failure
or whatever.

00:35:10:19 - 00:35:13:18
I mean, yeah,
but I think yeah.

00:35:15:09 - 00:35:16:20
But like with the PA.

00:35:16:20 - 00:35:19:12
Yeah. It's just it's it's
more expensive. It's a harder.

00:35:19:12 - 00:35:21:11
Yeah. That's
why that often gets a bad rap.

00:35:21:11 - 00:35:25:03
Like people are mixing
15 year old PA

00:35:25:15 - 00:35:26:23
with brand new consoles

00:35:26:23 - 00:35:28:03
and it's like, well,
why did you do that?

00:35:28:03 - 00:35:28:17
Well now,

00:35:28:17 - 00:35:31:04
now you have churches
that are redundancies,

00:35:31:04 - 00:35:33:17
you know, scares me to death
in the live events world.

00:35:33:17 - 00:35:34:06
You said,

00:35:34:06 - 00:35:35:17
you know, on
a, on a former podcast,

00:35:35:17 - 00:35:37:12
you're talking
about a D3 server

00:35:37:12 - 00:35:39:22
for a do perfect show
potentially missing.

00:35:39:22 - 00:35:40:09
And I'm like, well,

00:35:40:09 - 00:35:41:11
you should have two D3 servers

00:35:41:11 - 00:35:42:20
because if that D3 server goes
back,

00:35:42:20 - 00:35:44:12
you need to jump
back to see me.

00:35:44:12 - 00:35:46:02
Listen, I you see churches
that are buying

00:35:46:02 - 00:35:47:08
two of everything.

00:35:47:08 - 00:35:47:17
Yeah.

00:35:47:17 - 00:35:49:07
For that redundancy
to make sure it's

00:35:49:07 - 00:35:50:18
which if some are large enough

00:35:50:18 - 00:35:52:17
and it's critical enough
then sure.

00:35:52:17 - 00:35:56:07
But a lot of most churches
are like yeah, right.

00:35:56:08 - 00:35:57:17
Redundancy. That's insane.

00:35:57:17 - 00:36:00:05
So yeah I do think I

00:36:01:13 - 00:36:04:04
yeah it all it all really does
depend on church size.

00:36:04:04 - 00:36:08:01
But I think having that list
of capital expenditure

00:36:08:11 - 00:36:10:18
that will not
be coming out of your budget,

00:36:10:18 - 00:36:12:08
I think that's something
that people need to

00:36:12:08 - 00:36:12:22
take into account.

00:36:12:22 - 00:36:14:16
Like there are things
that just

00:36:14:16 - 00:36:17:23
you will not have budget
for their capital expenses.

00:36:17:23 - 00:36:19:09
And for a lot of folks,

00:36:19:09 - 00:36:23:03
consoles, part of that
console, part wireless.

00:36:23:09 - 00:36:23:17
Yeah.

00:36:23:17 - 00:36:27:22
Camera lenses LED like
they're those big categories.

00:36:27:23 - 00:36:28:05
Yeah.

00:36:28:05 - 00:36:29:15
Now Expendables,

00:36:29:15 - 00:36:31:14
you know that's
something that you budget for.

00:36:31:14 - 00:36:34:16
You know, batteries and tape
and all that stuff.

00:36:34:17 - 00:36:35:06
Food.

00:36:35:06 - 00:36:37:12
You know, if you're going to
feed your team on a weekend,

00:36:37:12 - 00:36:38:14
that's
something you budget for.

00:36:38:14 - 00:36:40:04
Like they're
they're what you should

00:36:40:04 - 00:36:43:06
you should have weekend
feed your teams.

00:36:43:07 - 00:36:44:17
But there's different
categories.

00:36:44:17 - 00:36:45:13
And I think you're right.

00:36:45:13 - 00:36:47:02
There's a

00:36:47:02 - 00:36:50:04
there's just long term capital
things that are just part of

00:36:50:05 - 00:36:53:10
the in the same way
that you would have categories

00:36:53:10 - 00:36:55:00
for your building maintenance.

00:36:55:00 - 00:36:55:04
You know,

00:36:55:04 - 00:36:57:12
your gear maintenance
has a similar schedule.

00:36:57:12 - 00:36:58:22
You know, that
that kind of thing.

00:36:58:22 - 00:37:01:06
So I would like I want to be
solution oriented here.

00:37:01:06 - 00:37:03:02
I would propose

00:37:03:02 - 00:37:05:13
so so for every church
it's going to look different.

00:37:05:13 - 00:37:08:12
What your actual like
week in week out budget,

00:37:08:12 - 00:37:11:00
you know gaff tape,
all that kind of stuff

00:37:11:00 - 00:37:12:11
that goes in a week
in, week out budget.

00:37:12:11 - 00:37:15:03
Who knows where that lands
as far as worship tech,

00:37:15:03 - 00:37:17:17
how it all gets divvied
up, your subscriptions,

00:37:17:17 - 00:37:18:18
all of that.

00:37:18:18 - 00:37:20:01
I don't think that's
the problem here.

00:37:20:01 - 00:37:23:03
It's the capital expenses that
we go, okay, what is that?

00:37:23:04 - 00:37:25:09
What is that number
figure out for your church?

00:37:25:09 - 00:37:27:21
What is that number that would
dictate a capital expense.

00:37:27:21 - 00:37:29:04
Maybe a drum
set for some churches

00:37:29:04 - 00:37:31:13
would be
considered a capital expense.

00:37:32:13 - 00:37:34:10
Put it in a spreadsheet and

00:37:34:10 - 00:37:36:05
you might have hundreds
of rows

00:37:36:05 - 00:37:38:07
depending on how many problems
you've got in your church.

00:37:38:07 - 00:37:41:10
But it's like new estimated

00:37:41:10 - 00:37:45:11
cost to replace drum kit,
estimated cost to replace.

00:37:45:11 - 00:37:45:17
Right.

00:37:45:17 - 00:37:48:17
And what I would do is

00:37:48:17 - 00:37:51:05
on the weekend,
you're obviously

00:37:51:05 - 00:37:52:20
getting feedback
hopefully from people.

00:37:52:20 - 00:37:55:13
And it's like drums
are too loud,

00:37:55:13 - 00:37:57:15
go out in spreadsheet
and you could do this

00:37:57:15 - 00:37:59:14
like in a really
organized way.

00:37:59:14 - 00:38:02:18
July 5th weekend service
feedback.

00:38:02:19 - 00:38:03:02
Right.

00:38:03:02 - 00:38:05:09
And you just start telling
these, we do this with MSU.

00:38:05:09 - 00:38:08:09
When people want something
about the platform to change,

00:38:08:22 - 00:38:11:17
will we have this all kind of
tracked in a database?

00:38:11:17 - 00:38:14:04
It's like somebody wants this
button here.

00:38:14:04 - 00:38:14:20
Oh that's interesting.

00:38:14:20 - 00:38:16:11
I've never heard
that happened again.

00:38:16:11 - 00:38:17:20
Somebody wants this
button here.

00:38:17:20 - 00:38:19:18
Oh I have heard
that I'm going to add that.

00:38:19:18 - 00:38:21:17
And all of a sudden

00:38:21:17 - 00:38:22:09
we come

00:38:22:09 - 00:38:25:09
come upon a quarter like hey,
what are we going to do?

00:38:25:14 - 00:38:27:18
Hundreds of people have asked
for this thing to be done.

00:38:27:18 - 00:38:29:21
Yeah, we should probably get
that done.

00:38:29:21 - 00:38:32:00
I think it's the same thing
with okay,

00:38:32:00 - 00:38:33:18
so when leadership comes
and says

00:38:33:18 - 00:38:35:19
capital expenditure time,
what do you need?

00:38:35:19 - 00:38:37:12
Well let's
go to our spreadsheet.

00:38:37:12 - 00:38:39:19
These everyone's had access
to this spreadsheet.

00:38:39:19 - 00:38:40:21
We're all on the same page.

00:38:40:21 - 00:38:43:05
This is the number one
pain point or number one

00:38:43:05 - 00:38:43:15
pain point.

00:38:43:15 - 00:38:44:12
We don't have
that kind of money.

00:38:44:12 - 00:38:46:02
Let's go to items two,
three and four.

00:38:46:02 - 00:38:48:11
And we can knock off a decent
chunk.

00:38:48:11 - 00:38:49:18
That's good.

00:38:49:18 - 00:38:51:23
And now with AI
that should be very easy.

00:38:51:23 - 00:38:52:21
Very easy.

00:38:52:21 - 00:38:54:19
Just AI knows
exactly what you need

00:38:54:19 - 00:38:56:03
collecting all of your data.

00:38:56:03 - 00:38:58:01
And yeah,
this is not it for you.

00:38:58:01 - 00:39:01:01
That's not overkill. That's
that's that's stewardship.

00:39:01:01 - 00:39:03:11
Yeah. That's and
and then responsible. Yeah.

00:39:03:11 - 00:39:04:20
And you can

00:39:04:20 - 00:39:05:07
then you

00:39:05:07 - 00:39:08:21
can plan out a couple years
and they know okay, maybe

00:39:09:02 - 00:39:11:19
next year we should,
should consider that.

00:39:11:19 - 00:39:15:12
And and then when, when stuff
inevitably hits the fan

00:39:15:12 - 00:39:18:05
and you don't have enough
money like everybody feels,

00:39:18:05 - 00:39:20:03
at least you're informed.
They're informed.

00:39:20:03 - 00:39:22:00
Hey, console died. Told you

00:39:23:00 - 00:39:24:00
so. I

00:39:24:00 - 00:39:26:23
at least can sleep tonight
and know that I did my job.

00:39:27:00 - 00:39:30:00
That's good.

00:39:35:13 - 00:39:37:23
But really,

00:39:37:23 - 00:39:39:08
spend money on your people.

00:39:39:08 - 00:39:42:08
Just do that
week in and week out.

00:39:42:11 - 00:39:43:09
We all can agree on that.

00:39:43:09 - 00:39:45:03
It helps feed your teams
on the weekends.

00:39:45:03 - 00:39:46:06
Good gracious.

00:39:46:06 - 00:39:48:16
Get em. Com. Yeah.

00:39:48:16 - 00:39:50:08
Do you care about your people,
your systems?

00:39:50:08 - 00:39:51:17
We do it all.
We help you. You.

00:39:51:17 - 00:39:52:12
We help you there.

00:39:52:12 - 00:39:55:00
If you do want to learn
more about you,

00:39:55:00 - 00:39:56:10
you you can head to get.

00:39:56:10 - 00:39:57:23
We'll put the link
in the description below.

00:39:57:23 - 00:39:58:11
This has been good.

00:39:58:11 - 00:40:00:20
Anything else
you guys want to add?

00:40:00:20 - 00:40:01:19
Love you guys.

00:40:01:19 - 00:40:03:13
Love you too man.
This is great.

00:40:03:13 - 00:40:05:13
What a good time
we've had here.

00:40:05:13 - 00:40:06:16
Jeff's got a lot of blue.

00:40:06:16 - 00:40:07:18
I've got the got the blue.

00:40:07:18 - 00:40:10:11
You got blue too.
I know, like the the.

00:40:10:11 - 00:40:10:20
Oh yeah.

00:40:10:20 - 00:40:12:02
It's the glasses

00:40:12:02 - 00:40:14:05
coordinating the watch,
the glasses and the shirt.

00:40:14:05 - 00:40:16:01
Yeah. I knew
I was going to be on TV today.

00:40:16:01 - 00:40:17:18
Yeah, yeah, this is good.

00:40:17:18 - 00:40:19:00
Thanks for joining us
on the podcast.

00:40:19:00 - 00:40:20:02
We'll see you next time.