The MxU Podcast

Interviewing the
sixth dude of Dude Perfect.

But I don't know that
I am the sixth dude

because they have a guy
who's kind of the host,

so I'm maybe like the seventh
or eighth dude.

But we have to ask them,
you know, you're a dude.

I'm a dude.

And for the live show,

I'm definitely a fairly
crucial dude to the success

or failure of the night.

It's different
for me mixing this

because I'm not mixing music,
you know, 10

or 12 channels at a time,
and they're in front of the PA

on headsets yelling,
and there's no real script.

I will say, I didn't hear
any feedback, not one time.

So that's one thing
I want to talk about.

Jess back on the podcast.

He's already big time in us.

He's just so busy.

Look at him. I didn't know
we were actually rolling yet.

Yeah. We're rolling. It's
okay. You were.

You were on the phone.

You took a call.

I'm just responding to the
call.

Yeah,
nobody knows about that one.

But we also that contributed
to this.

Yeah. It's good. Finish
what you're doing. Well, I'm.

I'm actually doing work
for my actual job this summer,

which is texting the dudes
about golf. Yes.

So which is a great intro,
great segue.

And that is what we're
here to talk today. Yep.

The audio guy of

Dude Perfect tells
all today on the podcast.

We want to know all the BTS.
We want to know.

There's five dudes.

There are five dudes.

Okay, so

title of the podcast
interviewing the sixth dude of

Dude Perfect.

But I don't know that
I am the sixth dude

because they have a guy
who's kind of the host

for the night that everybody
refers to as the sixth dude.

And so kids who watch
their channels

would know Sparky
as the sixth sixth dude.

So I may be like the seventh
or eighth dude.

Yeah, coming off the bench,
maybe 12, I don't know.

Yeah, but you have to ask
them, you know, you're a dude.

I'm a dude. Yeah.
For the live show.

I'm definitely a fairly,

crucial dude to the success
or failure of the night.

Of course you. I would hope
you have to be.

Yeah. Otherwise,
why am I there? Yeah, exactly.

Otherwise, I'm not there.

I'm not there
just to play golf.

Who's the better
golfer amongst the group

dudes, really?

So Ty and Garret
are the best golfers. Ty.

Like, the other day I played
Garrett didn't play with us,

but I played with Ty Cody

and Coach Rack
from the Savannah Bananas.

And Ty

shot one over.

Wow. He was he was two under
after 11 on a court.

He's never played before.

And of course he's never
played. That wasn't that easy.

I have a funny story,
though about my golf day.

It's crawling in your hair.

We got some ticks.

There's some.

There's
some vermin here at you.

Oh, got him so dead.

Either I have fleas or
we have a pest problem at em.

Out of here.
I don't want that on me.

That's bad.

Hope it wasn't a deer tick.

Give me some Lyme disease.
Who's on the lake last night?

I was probably been here.
Podcast this morning.

Lyme disease. You're good.
I'll tell you. We need to.

Okay, good.

Yeah.

So, anyway, Tyler
shot one over.

Over.

Which at that course,
it's par 70,

so he shot

71, which in any other course
is probably one under.

But he played great.

I shot 78 and then the other
guys were higher than that.

But funny story about my golf
experience that day.

I created a move on

the golf course
that were now affectionately

referring to
as the trip and snap.

Yeah. You got to hear this.

So we're walking up
to a tee box.

There's these big stone steps

going up to the tee
but they're natural stone.

So each one is
a bit of a different height.

There was one sorry.

There was one
that was significantly higher

than the other ones
like the third step.

So I'm

talking to the guys
and I'm walking up

the steps and I

tripped on the third step

because it was like 2 or 3in
higher than the other ones.

I tripped and fell forward

and my hands
went down to catch me

while I was holding my driver
in my left hand.

So the driver went against
the steps.

My hand went through
and snapped my driver in half.

Oh my gosh.

So the the shaft of my driver
was and you're a lefty.

So there's no you can't even
I can't borrow no option.

Tyler was like oh just use
mine. I've got a spare driver.

And I'm like,
I can't do it left handed.

So did you just hit your three
wood off the tee all day or.

Yeah,

I played 13 holes without
a driver and it was not easy.

I was
scrambling the whole day.

That's actually dangerous.

I'm glad you made it through
that.

That would have ruined
Dylan's day for sure.

Yeah. So? So it's called snap.

And what, the tripping
snap, snap.

Yeah, I like that.

You know,

that's
the thing about the dudes is

they'll give nicknames
like that to everything

in their lives. Yeah.

Of course.

It's like,
you know, every, every,

every word has an abbreviated
version.

You know,

it's like you hit the fairway
and I'll be like,

oh, man, you hit.

You know, you hit 11
Pharisees today or whatever.

And it's like, it's
no longer to say

fairways than it is fair seas.

But, you know, they're dudes.
They're dudes.

That's their thing.

I love it, it's a thing,
but it is a great

it's a great pleasure
to work with them.

This is my fourth tour
and it's super fun.

They seem like amazing people.

They really care what you see

in terms of
just what they put out,

in terms of personality
and authenticity and all that.

It's like the same backstage
as it is on stage.

It's really cool. Yeah.

So I'm curious
because I was well,

we were both at the show
the other night and,

and as I, as
I was watching the show,

which was very interested,
Knoxville was actually

our largest show of the tour.

Well,
why do you think that was?

I followed that come out.

What what was about Knoxville
that.

Well, capacity
is higher than other venues.

Okay.

But have you all done

if y'all played the Dallas
area yet Fort Worth and.

Yeah, yeah.

And we were bigger
than those areas.

Well,
we did two shows in Dallas.

We did Fort Worth at Dickies
Arena and American Airlines

split it really. So it was
it was split.

So total in Dallas
was probably 20,000 people.

Largest venues
spread across two.

But this was the largest venue
and the largest attendance

of the whole show,
which is cool.

Yeah, probably four
I think. There were 14,000

people in the room at Thompson
Bowling.

Yeah, and it was loud.

Yeah, that was fun.

Bunch of 11 year old boys
screaming at two K

the whole night. Hey,
our kids were having a blast.

Yeah, my 12 year old daughter
and eight year old son.

I don't think they.
I told Beckham. Hey. Sit down.

Several times,
because people behind them,

you know,

jet knew every every question
of that trivia game.

That's every answer.

Boom boom boom boom.

So she's into it
as much as he is. Oh, yeah.

She apparently she knows way
more about them than he does.

That's amazing.
Yeah. Well, yeah.

I mean, afterwards, Jill
and I went to waffle House.

We're sitting there
and he was just.

You got to tell everybody,
though,

what Joel got to eat
at waffle House.

So here's
a seven year old kid,

and this is what he's having
after the show.

Yeah.

We sit down and

and first of all,
she comes over super nice,

you know,
typical waffle House waitress.

Great. Super nice.

What can I get you all drink?
I'm like, I'll get a water.

He's like Hi-C and
I'll get a pop rock waffle.

They had the the waffle waffle

with Pop Rocks
with Pop Rocks on top of them.

This is loaded down the sugar.
Oh, bro.

We. It's a party in your mouth
and everyone's invited.

Yeah, but he's sitting
there just chowing down.

Would not shut his mouth.

I mean, I didn't say a word
the whole meal.

He's just like dad.

I got to meet Tyler.

I got to meet.
I got to meet the bananas.

What? What is this life?

He was.

Listeners, that photo of you
posting of you and Joel?

Yeah, of Tyler, of him
with Tyler.

Yeah, yeah.

And my kids missed
that opportunity by seconds.

Apparently devastated my kids.

Oh. I'm sorry.

I mean, because it must
have been just seconds.

It was just because
y'all walked.

I was about to make a joke.

I was like, yeah, so who's
whose kids got to meet?

Yeah,
because you guys walked in,

like eight seconds
ahead of us.

And then we got delayed
a little bit at security.

So once we came backstage
and we're in the catering

and you show them,
that's messed up.

Why didn't you show them
the photo? Don't rub it in.

I was like, took this out.

It's why it's important
to be on time, kids.

Yeah, I also. I'm sorry.
I didn't know that.

No, it's totally
not the funniest thing.

This has been
so we can go again.

I said with her in Kentucky,
we can go to Kentucky.

Oh, yeah.

Cincinnati.
We're going to be in Atlanta.

We're going to be
in Charlotte. Maybe not.

See another running joke
for for many years.

Well, this really started out
like a live event,

that one at passion in 24

that people thought
that Jeff's my dad.

They're like,
oh, this is like a father son

operation around here at MSU.

So I really took people
through

because I'm old, as you say.
No, I don't.

But people
came to their own conclusions.

I don't know how old. Jeff.

We've been saying it
for a decade.

You're not old.
You're older. Older.

Okay, good.

Yeah, we we talked about that
on the podcast.

We talked about how old is too
old or whatever.

Where do you went
through all that?

But I really through people
for a loop because I said

Uncle Jeff came through
big time for, for Joel.

And so people of my
DMs are like,

I had no idea that he was
your uncle.

Oh, my God, that's funny.

What I liked about the new
guys.

The dude night.

So do we call it a show

because they call it
squad games? But it's a show.

But yeah,

the the format for the show
this year is squad games.

And so in prior years

the five guys competed
each other,

competed against each other
throughout the night

to determine
the champion of the night.

So this year,
because they've done

their squad game stuff
on their channels,

they are now competing
as a team against other teams.

So like this weekend
we had the Savannah bananas.

A couple weeks ago

we had what they're calling
Creator Squad,

which is other YouTubers
coming together. Gotcha.

A couple weeks before that,

we had the Harlem
Globetrotters.

And so it's like they're
competing against other teams

head to head

to determine the championship
team of the night.

So it's funny

because the dudes have
actually lost three times.

And the night that you were
there,

they lost to the Savannah
bananas.

It came down to game seven.

It's like seven sports

related contests
throughout the night,

and it's the best
of seven series.

And so usually comes down
to the seventh game.

And the bananas pulled it out.

So I love I love that it's not
you know as a producer

I'm sitting there going,
okay, the dudes are down.

I think it was like three one.

They just lost the third game.

I was like, oh no, it was so
bananas were down.

Bananas.
Yeah, bananas were down.

Dudes were up three one.

No no no no no no
no. Dudes were losing.

Yeah, yeah. Nanas were up.
Dudes came back.

Oh that's right
dudes came back.

They they blasted them
in the goat cart game

and they were just
murdering them.

But I had thought to myself,
I bet the dudes win

the next couple games to go
in game seven,

because you're thinking
they're going to throw it on

to get to it because.

Yeah, and but I don't feel
like that happened.

I feel like they played
and they're playing hard.

Like everybody's trying hard.

And it's

I mean that's
the cool part about

it is from a production
standpoint,

it is different every night.

You know, the

the elements are programed,
but it's not scripted.

Like, in other words,
even for, for my stuff

that I'm doing,

like my it's different for me

mixing this
because I'm not mixing music,

you know,

like the rest of my career,
I'm mixing

basically 7 or 8 headset mix
in front of the PA,

yelling at each other
the whole night

like it was more than that.

Well,
a couple of handhelds too.

So it's like up to, you know,
10 or 12 channels at a time.

And they're in front of the PA
on headsets

yelling,
and there's no real script.

So it's like,
I've got to determine, okay,

who's actually
in charge of this element?

Is it the host? Is it
one of the dudes?

How are they going
to balance each other?

Because they're talking over
each other all the time.

Well, I mean, I even heard
at one point they were

they were trying to strategize
in the middle of a game

in a Savannah guy grabs
his headset.

Was it is, my God,
can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Because he was trying
to talk to him.

They've got they've got
everybody in their ears.

Yeah.

So he's trying to communicate
over the crowd.

And so I have to be
mindful of that.

Yeah.
Like when he's doing that.

Are you ducking him?

I had to cause

I heard him say that
and I was like,

okay, so it's still in there,
but it's not like

just constant
chasing and watching.

Just chasing.

Yeah, I will say I didn't hear
any feedback, not one time.

So that's one thing
I want to talk about

is just the technology
for the show is different.

So in prior years I've tried
things like Dugan Auto Mixer.

The problem with Dugan
is that

in order for Dugan to work
well,

you have to give priority

to one mic over another

and then it automatically
ducks

the mix that don't have
priority.

Well,
the problem with this show

is that not one
person has priority.

It's like they're all talking
over each other all the time.

And Dugan didn't
know what to do with all that.

So it was very difficult
for Dugan to work.

So then there's things like PS
and X feedback and other

plug in type tools to help
with game before feedback.

And coming into this tour,

I was going to use DeFi back,
which is a plugin

that a lot of people
have become familiar with.

And so
we were prepping for that,

and then the production

manager called me and said,
hey, did you see the demo from

About Source Intelligence?

And I had seen it,
but I wasn't there to hear it.

And I was like, yeah,
it looks very interesting.

He said, well,
it runs on an Elisa processor.

And so our company happens
to have two processors

that we're not doing Elisa
for this tour,

but we can use
these processors

to accommodate source
intelligence.

So each processor can handle
four Mike's or four channels.

So I have seven headsets that
are dedicated to the process.

And then the eighth
channel is a group.

So I have the handhelds

and some other mix that aren't
one of the key dudes mix.

So there's five dudes

and two headsets
from the visiting team

that are
individually processed.

Then the eighth channel
is a group

of all the other mix,
and I'm telling you,

what it does
is complete voodoo in my mind

because it detects the voice
or whatever

the input is, detects it,
and completely ducks

everything else
that that channel is hearing.

And so

I can have all those headset
mics like Tyler comes out,

kids are screaming
at the top of the show

as he kind of intros
the night.

His mic was literally 95
DBA waited in front of the

PA without a hint of even
worrying about feedback.

And for my job, it's like,
yeah, people worry about AI

taking over their jobs
and all that.

I don't think AI

is ever going to be a
complete, like auto mixer type

thing.

Like,
I still think there's room

for creativity and all that,
but for me, in that seat,

bring on the AI

because I don't have
to worry about that,

and I can focus on
the other things

that are most important
for the mix and feedback,

which was generally in prior
years.

My only primary concern is now
completely off the table.

It's unbelievable. So kudos to

you know,

obviously
it's an expensive process

because you need those
processors.

It's a proprietary license
for acoustics only.

You know, it's not like an
open platform kind of thing.

So it is expensive.

But man, for the people

who have those resources
in their existing inventory

for a touring company
and all that,

I feel like within
I would say five

because I'm old,
but I know with technology

moving forward,
within 2 to 3 years,

a live sound engineer

will never have to worry
about feedback again.

Yeah,
it seems like there's just

dozens of tools out there
in that vein

that are going after
the same goal.

Yeah, it's pretty sweet. Yeah.

And for more affordably,

you know, to be able to

mitigate some of that stuff,
I highly recommend D feedback

like it's a great process.

So if you're ever
at a trade show

or you haven't heard it yet
or whatever,

they're always,

you know,

there and have a presence

and you need to get a demo
and work on it, because it's

just as a live engineer,

to not have to worry about
feedback is a massive

how much does it mess
with like sonic quality,

like if you're
using on a lead vocal. So

depending on the
settings like I use D feedback

back in the fall
last year for the

the YouVersion event
that was celebrating

the billionth
download of the Bible app.

And so I had it on basically
the vocal group for that.

And so if it's on a group

and if you
if you do too much of it

or you

set the threshold too low,
then there are some artifacts

in terms
of how it's doing the process,

but you can set it

so that it's pretty
undetectable,

undetectable in terms
of just weird zippers

or artifacts
or glitches or whatever.

So it's I mean,
and it's only getting better.

I think every iteration
of the software,

whatever it is,
if it's defeat back

or source intelligence
or whoever else is doing it,

even waves

plugins as they move
toward faster processors and,

you know, higher

just headroom and DSP
and all that,

it's only going to get better
and better.

Yeah.

What's so feedback
is no longer

the most challenging

part of the tour for you
as an audio guy on the

on the on the tour,
what is the most challenging

thing for you?

You know,

it really is because there's
so many more people involved.

It's not just the five dudes.

It's really trying to
kind of help

tell the story of what's
happening on the floor.

Because the other thing
about this tour

is that there's

no stage in prior years
we've had a bunch of staging,

and it's been like some of
the action has happened,

like on the behind the PA,
like on a typical end stage

where you'd have a desk
with them sitting behind it

talking about a cool,
not cool item

or other things
from their overtime show.

Now there is no stage

because the entire arena floor
is where the action happens.

So there's these massive props
with all these, you know,

moving targets for football
throw or a moving field

goal for a kick or a raising,
lowering basketball hoop

for different trick shots
and stuff.

That's
so much a part of the action.

But the great thing about that
is there's

not a bad seat in the house

because everybody is sitting
above the stage

looking down
onto the arena floor,

so everybody's
got a great view.

But for me,

along with the video team,
it's like,

how are we going
to tell the story?

Because people
are pretty small on the floor.

If you're up in the 300 level,

you've got to be able
to communicate

like who's talking,
who's leading this,

you know, conversation,
who's who's Mike

do I need to have on

because you've got somebody
up in the stands

trying to hit a soccer ball
with a big golf club,

like pretending

they're playing

golf down
onto the arena floor,

and then you've got
somebody over here

in the stands
with a bow and arrow

trying to shoot a balloon.

And then people on the floor
who were talking around a desk

like they're the announcers
for the, for the game.

So it's like, you know, for me
it's really just managing.

Okay, who's

I know how
this is supposed to go,

but whose mic needs to win
right now

so that everybody can clearly

hear the flow of the game
because it is pretty chaotic.

So it's really like creating,
almost like helping to create

a script based on who I think
is going to be talking

most prominent.

It definitely
is very different than what

most people are used to.

As far as like
when you go to a concert

or a show,
that's why I was like,

we call it a show
because it was very much so a

from an attendee.

It it was chaotic,
but in really good way

because it was always
something happening around.

It's very stimulating.

Somebody hitting the golf
ball up

behind my head to the right.

I got

tennis balls launching at us,
you know, and then everyone

on the floor,
like you said, is talking.

And so you're
trying to pay attention.

And they have,
you know, the eye mags.

And then all of a sudden cryo
is going off in front of you

and you're just like, yeah,

all the elements
happening at once.

It's pretty chaotic.

Yeah, I liked it a lot.

I'm curious how,

how enjoyable is it for you
personally, like doing that?

Obviously you've spent years
mixing bands

and so on and so forth.

Has has it been hard
to find enjoyment

in doing that,
or has it been pretty natural?

It's a good question.
It's very different.

And so
I like the challenge of that.

But I also love helping a band
make music.

Like I love

mixing music and that's
that's like my first love

in terms of production.

So it doesn't get you
playing golf with the dudes.

This is true.

Well, that is, I had to play.

That is what got him playing
golf. Sure.

But but back then I had to
play golf with Chris Tomlin.

And he wants to do that.
Yeah, exactly. Kidding.

I'm just kidding. Golf
with Chris. It's great.

Unless he's having a bad day.

He is so competitive.

Really this this should not be
we should edit this out.

It's not going to happen.

He's he's so competitive
on the golf course.

So if he's playing wrong
with that man. No.

But if he's playing badly it's
it gets awkward.

It's not fun for anybody.

But anyway.

And the dudes
are not very far from that.

I think they're very
competitive too.

So it's and I
and I'm hard on myself.

So it's like it's
golf. That's golf. Anyway,

to answer the question,
there are things that I do

miss about mixing music,
but it is a fresh challenge.

And I've I've really
enjoyed it.

I've loved getting to know
the guys like they're awesome.

And the other thing is,
because I'm older,

I've earned the right
not to have to hang the PA

white glove in it.

Not totally white glove.

And I set up my console
and I helped run this.

You can pick up your console
like like.

Well,
that's the other thing I want

to talk about in a minute.

I was there,
I wasn't gonna bring it

up on the podcast,
but I was there.

I saw what you were doing.

So my setup is less
than it has been in the past.

So I have freedom

to do things like play golf
or go for a run or work out.

The other thing about my day
is that my daughter

Stella is on the crew as well.

So she's crushing it.

So I get to spend time
with her, which is great.

I never had that
on other tours

when she was little,

so there are things about it
that are awesome.

There's things about it
that I.

I do miss other aspects.

I will say
I miss my body's ability

to adjust to bust sleep
because as I've gotten older,

Im not resting
as well as I could in the past

because it's just
it's just harder to, yeah,

roll down the road every night
and wake up in the next city

after sleeping on a bus
all night.

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Now back to the show.

100%, but could imagine.

So how big is the crew?

So here's what I'm seeing.

You know,

because we go to videos
for all the big transitions.

So you said earlier, there's
these big props on the floor.

Well, the props
don't live on the floor,

so the props have got to
come on and off per each game.

And then the transitions
between each game,

with the exception

of the live podcast scenario
they did, it was all a longer

probably what it felt like
maybe 4 to 7 minute videos.

So they're like they way
to minutes or two minutes.

It's a quick trip.
They felt forever.

I'm just getting so.

But what
I'm seeing on the floor is,

you know,
it looks like 15 to 20.

Yeah.

Is that is that local hands
or is that crew in and out?

Our crew.
That's the core crew with us.

We have there's
there's the dudes bus.

So they're on their own bus.

And then we have six
other busses

that are a combination
of our core crew, plus,

you know, management,
which is like a promoter

and promoter reps and merch
and all that.

So and then each bus
sleeps 12.

So there's

what's that, 70, 70 people
or so that we're traveling

down the road with every day.

But in terms of the core
production

crew, there's front of house
monitors,

two techs, a third,
a third person who's PA tech.

So five audio, probably

between LED and cameras.

There's 5 or 6 video
production manager,

stage manager.

You know, producer.

I mean, so our core crew
and then props is like

four people.

So our core crew is about 20.

And then every day

we'll have depending
on the city

depending
on the need for load in.

We also

we also have a rigor
that tours with us and another

kind of assistant rigor.

So we've got 25
or so on our core crew.

And then usually

60 stagehands that are
provided locally for loading.

And then for the show
call, there's probably

there's
at least a dozen stagehands

that are there for helping
to get those props on and off.

So between our props crew
and the stagehands, there's

probably 15 or so,
15 to 20 people who are

helping to manage all that
because it is like there's a

there's a distance to travel,
because if you're going from

you have a big prop
in the middle of the floor,

either way you go, whether
it's in a bomb in this corner

or a bomb backstage, you know,
you're traveling 100ft in

45 to 90s during a video
transition to get stuff.

And then there's
somebody in the floor

who's still talking as a host

trying to kill time
to make that happen.

So it's it's a pretty like
it's a ballet of coordination

to get all that stuff
happening. Yeah. It's awesome.

I'm curious.

We talked about gear
a little bit with with

feedback and such, but
so you're using LV classic.

Yeah I'm curious

what wireless
and microphones are used.

So we have two consoles
one for house, one it monitors

and it's both LV one classic.

And then those consoles
are set to share the IO.

And so we have
I have the internal console

IO at front of house
with a few inputs coming in.

Talk backs,

the producer Mike comm
channels, things like that.

The monitor position is where
the rest of the IO lives.

So he's got a couple of stage
boxes

where the wireless come in
and other inputs,

video inputs
and that sort of thing are all

happening in Monitor World
and we share IO.

So the way that console works
is that when your IO sharing,

basically one person
has control of the game

and then the other console
has gain tracking

and digital trim.

So it's it's setting gains.
Or is he he is okay. Yeah.

So gains are set
at Monitor World.

And in terms of wireless
we're using the sound devices

wireless mics.

This is the units
that can like

have like

12 channels of wireless
in one unit or something.

One are you up to 32 channels
of wireless.

It's insane.

And the way the software

works for deployment,
he doesn't know what it means.

But yeah.

And the way
the deployment works,

the software interface
is so intuitive.

You can deploy it, it'll scan
and deploy automatically.

You don't have to hold the mic

in front of the unit
to to sync it all up.

It just it sends the info

and it is one of those,
you know, it's expensive.

Really? Yeah.

I don't have a retail price
for you,

but if you're interested in

buying one,
I know where you can get one.

But yeah, it's it's expensive.

And then we use, we use accent
for the ears okay.

And but

the other thing about the,

the mix is the wireless
pack is like this big.

Yeah.

And so for a guy who's
running around the stage

or running around the floor
all night,

it's so light and so compact.

And the microphones themselves
are DPA for our headsets.

Okay.

And the sound devices, mikes
for handhelds.

Did the sound devices
units, can that do

can that transmit and receive
or is it like

does it go both ways.

Not yet,
but it's going to. Gotcha.

That's sick.

Yeah. That's important.

Dylan has no idea
what you're talking about.

So can we talk about something
that actually matters?

No, I wasn't going to say that

because this is very
interesting stuff.

Yeah, he did say that
one time on a podcast

we were talking.

Can we talk about something
that matters?

Yeah, we were talking with
what about my knees?

Yeah, we were talking about
church front.

We were talking with church
front guys about gear.

I don't know, whatever.

It was six months ago
getting nerdy.

And Dylan literally didn't say
a word the entire episode.

And everybody thought like,

there was, like,
serious tension. Like he was.

I mean, he was like, literally

at the end of the episode,
he goes, great.

So now can we can we talk?

We've spent

we spent like an hour talking
about someone in the group

finally said something like,
yeah, so people,

let's talk about people
for a second.

And then I go, oh, finally,
something that matters.

That was
the first thing you said in

the episode is the first word
he understood?

Yeah, exactly.

You were saying
I was going to ask you.

So people are listening.

Most of the people
that listen to

this podcast
are obviously church

production guys, worship
guys and girls, obviously.

So what's something
that's happened?

Because how many of you
have done 15 so far? 12.

We've done 12 of 22.

And we know
in a live production space

that those 12 nights
have not gone perfect

because it's just impossible.

Like there's things
that have come up.

The first few tour
runs of every tour,

something comes up.

I would be curious to hear you
if you have a scenario,

putting you on the spot
to think through this quickly,

a scenario that happens
that you thought in a moment,

oh no, what do we

what's going to happen next
if you've had those moments?

How did you handle that
moment?

How did your producer
handle that moment?

What was the team like?
What were the dudes like?

Because in the church base,

you know,
you're you're trying to mix

100 different channels of RF
and go karts and footballs

flying in the air and balloons
popping and cry cryo.

We don't deal with that
in the church space,

but we do deal with movement
on stage.

We deal with a pastor
walking out office

tape left and right,
and if he goes out of

if he goes too far left, he's
now out of front wash

or he's now under the speaker.

And we're
getting that feedback

because we don't have the

feedback and all that
acoustic processing stuff.

So I'm curious to hear you

kind of say, hey,
this is a scenario

that happened and we did this

to push through it
to have a successful night.

Okay.

So one big example was not

this past weekend shows,
but the week before, our

video truck broke down.

It was a week ago Sunday.

Our Sunday shows start at six
instead of seven.

I don't know why,

because the school, there's
no school, so kids

don't need to go to bed early
on a school night.

And yet Sunday shows
start at six,

maybe
so that we can get out early

for if Monday's an off day,
whatever.

Anyway, 6:00 show.

That means that doors
general doors are at five.

But then there's
all this VIP stuff

that happens in the room
beforehand.

So VIP doors are at 345
on those days.

We got a message
from the driver

that the video truck
was scheduled to arrive at

230 after having broken down
in the middle of the night.

So that's all the LED.
I was going to say.

That's all the cameras? Yep.

It's the the D3 server
for all of the video content.

And so we're having to go,

okay,
LEDs not going to happen.

And the show is all about LED
because that's your Imag.

That's your video playback.

That's everything.
So the plan is okay.

How do we

scramble to be able to use
whatever

the house
has for video for LED?

So the production manager
is coordinating

with their house guy to go,
okay, what do you need

signal wise to be able to get
whatever, whatever, whatever.

And then it was, do
you have any cameras in house?

Can we figure out how to

leverage some of your PTZ
or some of your

like their basketball arena.

And they do broadcast,
but their cameras are not like

everything is struck

because it's
usually an independent company

who's coming in
to do the video.

So it's like,
what do you even have?

So it was not a great day
for the production manager

because
he's having to scramble

and then he's in conversation

with the driver to go,
how far out are you? Whatever.

Well they got traffic
or construction or whatever.

So it's like, well now we're
going to be there at three.

So then the conversation
became, okay,

we're just hoping
that our D3 video server

is going to get here in time
so that we can have content.

Yeah, because there's no way
to run some of that stuff

off a laptop.

Like because of the way

it's scaled
and the way it's everything

in split out
for different screens.

It's like we need this thing.

So I'm actually on

the golf

course that
morning just playing golf.

No, it was early
in the day. No.

When the when the announcement
first came across.

So there's a WhatsApp group
that we're

that comes across trucks here.

Three
I'm going to the golf. Yeah.

No no video sucks anyway.

So we were already out.
But I happened to be

I happened to be
with the dudes.

So I'm sitting
next to Coby and Cody

and this message comes in
and I'm like, oh guys,

I don't know
if you've heard yet,

but the video truck
won't be here until 230.

Well, there, as the dudes,
they're going,

okay,
what would we need to change

programing wise to be able
to even have a show?

Because there's a lot of video

support,
like for those transitions

and all the transition video.

So it was kind of
a mad scramble,

but then it was like, okay,
we can use the house screens,

we can figure out cameras.

You know,

if the video truck gets here,

even even if doors are at 345,
we still have two hours

before showtime.

So if

we could get the truck here,
we could build a few cameras.

If the servers here we can
plug it in will be good.

But it was literally
a whole process of okay,

all the what ifs.

And then
how do you back up from that

to plan for whatever
contingency?

So the truck

pulled into the venue at 315
and you're climbing over.

Climbing over.

I mean,
there were so many pelicans

just coming into the room
with all the cameras

being built and all the stuff.
How was how was Shep doing?

Shep was a little under
the gun, I bet.

So eight minutes me
show ready.

So a lot of

you know Shep from the socials
and from church world.

He's our video director
for the show.

And brilliant move on chef's
part he has put out every day.

Just a call for local church
camera folks to come

and give them extra
help to be an op to be

because we

we were at the point
in the first few shows

we had all of our LED
texts were camera ops

and they still had a bus
driver was a camera bus

driver, truck driver,
truck driver two.

They were camera ops.

So Shep was like,
these guys have budget.

These guys have to sleep.

Like, we got to figure out
some other plans.

So he got church
guys out there complaining

that they don't have a, you
know, tour ready camera ops.

It's like brothers
and bus drivers out here.

Yeah.

So guys
who had never touched a camera

before and it's like,
yeah, I'll do it.

Tip me out. I'm good to go.

Everything's for sale.
That's not too.

That's not too far off times
we've had tip out people.

Oh yeah. Yeah,
that's not so Shepherd.

But Shep has done a great job
of getting volunteers

from churches
to come in and help him out.

So he's like, I'll take church
guys over these bus drivers.

But in that, in that scenario,
he had extra help to be able

to build the camera chains
and to help, you know,

just a mad scramble
getting the stuff ready.

So the show came off

and nobody knew that
anything had happened wrong,

and it could have been
a disaster.

So that's a long story to
answer your question of, okay,

just thinking in advance

of the things
that could go wrong,

like what are the massive

points of failure
that could happen?

And then do we have a
contingency for each of those?

Sometimes things happen,
lightning

strikes and a thunderstorm
and you lose power.

You know you can't or no AC or
Knoxville.

Well, yeah, that's the thing.

It's it's been that way.

And that's why we call it
Thompson boiling

Thompson Boiling Arena.

Yeah. Because it's freaking
hot in there.

Yeah that's
really cool though.

You know there's
but there's things.

So in other words,
just to have cool head

like cool heads prevail.

Have a plan.

Know what your contingencies
might be like in our advance.

For example, production
advance.

Our our production manager is
going to know what do we have

in terms of how screens,
what do we have

in terms of house PA
if we had to punt,

is there a way we could punt
and not destroy the show?

Because, you know, these folks
who are coming

have paid a lot of money
to be a part of this.

Some families come and it's
their family Christmas.

Like we bought the

early access meet
and greet thing for Christmas

for our kids.

And it's

hundreds of dollars
that they're spending

for their kids to have the
time of their lives. Yep, yep.

You know,
you texted me afterwards

and you were like, Joel has
this is made Joel's year.

Yeah. And one of Joel's
best buddies.

That's exactly it.
He was there, too.

And it was his Christmas
present. Yeah.

So we want to make sure
that we honor that

and give people
the best experience possible.

So to be prepared,

because it's not just show up
and react.

It's anticipate

and try to try to get ahead
of some of those things

so that if and when they do
happen, you're ready for it.

I'm glad to share that story
because as a

church production individual,

you know, so often in
our world we hear about this.

We hear like, man,
if I had this,

if I had more
staff, had better gear,

if I had this processing,
if I had this

console, whatever,
whatever. Right.

And then you hear a tour
of this size 20 plus dates,

all arenas, dude.

Perfect.

One of the world's
largest YouTube brands.

I mean,
we Spencer looked at me

during the show and goes,
the power of YouTube.

Unbelievable.

Oh my gosh.

Well, and the fact that
they were the first like they

there were no other sports
related influencers like they.

And it started with them
sitting out on the deck

by their house at Texas A&M
College. Roommates with a bat?

Yeah, with a basketball.
Tyler and Cody.

He had a basketball
rim behind him

and he just goes, hey,
watch this.

Throws it behind him
and swish. Yeah.

And it started it
all 17 years ago.

And now it's you know we
we posted a video of a clip

from the show the other night
that got 200 million views

in three days. Yeah.

So what we're like
as an old guy, I'm like,

what world are we living in
right now?

And so that makes me feel
old. Yeah.

And of all of that,
you look at that and go,

these,
this tours and tours like this

just must have unlimited
resources,

unlimited staffing, unlimited
crewing, unlimited issue.

They don't have any issues.

They don't have this.
They don't have that.

But in the church base
we don't have any money.

We have no budget,
we have no staff.

And then here you say
chefs doing volunteer

calls on Instagram
and trucks aren't showing up,

and the talents of the dudes
are having to think

through programing. Okay.

So our pastors and worship
teams are trying to think

through reprograming

like there's issues
that come with any live event,

there's any production,

it's live with music,
just talking heads.

It doesn't matter.

And so to bring for you to

share the story
that brings that into reality,

for a listener to go,

you're not the only one
having issues.

Even some of the largest tours
in the world, totally

or in the United States,
have issues daily.

And it's how you think
through those issues.

It's how you keep a calm head.

It's how you make sure
that systems in play,

but that right staff guy

or girl is thinking
through the things

and to have backups, if
you can always be ahead of it.

Like, you know, a success,

in my opinion,
a successful production

company or producer,

they're successful
because they're thinking

about 2 or 3 steps
ahead of every decision.

I know if this fails,
I have 2 or 3 other options.

I can kick in and
and save that scenario.

That's good.

Another example
and this is a smaller example,

but one of the

one of the bits in the night,
one of the games is go

kart soccer.

So these guys are in go karts
and they're chasing around

this massive soccer ball,
using the go kart

to hit the ball and compete
against each other.

It's it's awesome.
It's the most favorite game.

It's the most fun, energetic.

It's the most fun
event of the night.

The problem is

they're worried about
controlling their go kart.

They're not worried
about their microphone.

Well, they have a collision

pack falls off
or Mike falls off.

Go kart runs over it.

That my cable is dead.
That's happened three times.

Oh, that's
what happened the other night

because I saw somebody
just like

through across the floor
over to the stage manager.

So Mike is dead. I love it.

And so one time it was that
the cable actually snapped.

Yeah.

One time it's the connector
from the mic to the pack.

So we have spares
of those connectors.

We have a couple of spare
headsets.

But literally after that show

we're down to one spare.

We started the show
with 4 or 5 spares.

Now we're down to one.

So our call
that night was to Mike

rentals called Steven,
and we were like,

hey, can we get three
more DPA headsets shipped?

You're getting them back?

Yeah, you'll get them back.
But can we get three?

We might be buying them
from you. We beat.

Can we get three
more for tomorrow? Yeah.

And it was like
yeah no problem.

So again,

having those resources
available

because I know that
if I call Steven

yeah it's going to be done.

Mike rentals

Steven Aruna
those guys are incredible.

Yeah. So it's
that kind of thing though.

It's it's
like it just be ahead of it.

And you know
before we're thinking and not

you don't feel like you're
playing defense all the time.

That's the worst
feeling in the world.

Yeah yeah yeah.

And that's a budget thing too
because churches will go,

well, we don't have the budget
to call my grenades and say,

send me three mics.
But you do have the budget.

When you sit down
for a big Christmas event

or your next big

Easter program and you say,
okay, pastor says, I have,

you know, $20,000 to work with
to enhance our production.

You should be setting aside
at least $1,000 of don't

touch this, maybe 10%.

Yeah, this money is for OHS
and last minutes

and giving giving
the microphones guys a call

you know last minute.

And so something I'm
seeing too is

like churches are not quick
to call each other for help.

You know,

think about think about like

you know church in Dallas,
they have a microphone.

How many churches are there
in Dallas?

There's like one on
every every yeah, every road.

And they all have

almost all of them,
at least from what I've seen.

When I walk,
they've got spare equipment.

We could all name a dozen
megachurches in Dallas by name

that are multi multi-million
of dollars of budget, well, in

two miles from each other.

Yeah.

It's like, hey,
we want to do this one

special thing

that, you know,

our current systems
can support or we had failure.

Okay.

Well the dude call the call
the three churches

down the street.

Oh you don't
have their numbers

because you never or,
heaven forbid,

what if we all collaborated on

a special event
for the community

and actually pooled
our resources to be able

to pull off something they
could never do on their own?

Now that's a whole

that's a whole other
conversation itself.

But it's a great point.

That's a way above production
decisions right there.

But ultimately,

maybe the first step is like
just getting their numbers

and knowing the church
down the street.

But ideally that's
what the church is for, right?

Like we we call it.

I mean, I mean, yeah,
you guys called

in that moment, you call
the arena and you're like,

talk to the, you know, house
production manager, whoever.

What what do you guys have?

Can we use it?

Pretty no brainer solution.

But sometimes we make it
so complicated in the church.

Oh, we can't get that two day
shipping.

It's like city.

Were you in?

I forget it doesn't matter.

My point is,
you probably could

have found a D3 server
and that city. Yeah.

So we had to.

Have you had the content,

you know, separate,
which you probably did.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's

that's one we, we hear often.

I actually saw
there was a church

that was thinking
about selling some equipment

and they realized, oh,
we're going

to get pennies on the dollar.

And we want to keep this
just in case,

you know, somebody might
need it in town here.

I was like,
that's a really interesting

I just haven't heard somebody
say that before.

But I'm like,

kind of cool.
I love that, Jeff.

Thanks for sharing. Of course.
Super fun.

Thanks for letting us
come in there.

We had a

I had a blast having you there

and I'm so glad
your kids had a great time.

It really is.

I'm watching
Do Perfect every day since.

Yeah, yeah,
I can hear 730 in the morning.

Let's go. I'm like,
turn me down.

They do a lot of screaming.

That is one
even live indefinitely.

Like live.

I was like, bro,

these compressors are getting
paid overtime today.

Yeah there's a

there's not enough gain
reduction on some of those.

Yeah yeah yeah.

But it's fun.
Well this has been great.

Thanks for sharing, brother.
Of course.

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