The MxU Podcast

Jess:
[0:00] Please wait. You are not ready until you're ready.

Dillan:
[0:02] People want that title as quick as they can get it.

Spencer:
[0:05] I want to lead people. It's like we know the words and what to say, but we have to actually sit there and inventory our heart and go, why do I actually want this?

Dillan:
[0:13] What is the value of waiting?

Jess:
[0:15] What are you doing now? Like with what your hand is on, that would be evident to the people around you. It's the person you want to become. Pray into that. Ask the Holy Spirit, hey, what kind of person do I want to be? Who are you leading now? If you can't answer it, the trust won't be there because you weren't already doing it.

Spencer:
[0:37] Hey, y'all. Welcome back to the MXU podcast. We are here at Faith Promise Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Dillan:
[0:44] Faith Promise Church.

Spencer:
[0:45] With Jessica Elston. Hello. Hello. Okay. So first, just a warning. Jess is our friend. So, if you're like, hey, it doesn't seem like these guys just met this person. It's because we didn't just meet Jess. So, also, Dylan.

Dillan:
[1:04] Yes.

Spencer:
[1:04] This used to be your home church.

Dillan:
[1:06] Yep.

Spencer:
[1:07] For years.

Dillan:
[1:07] Definitely still would be considered probably a home church. Yeah. But I worked here for years. Next-gen worship pastor. Then the title changed. The drop-row went central. So, I went next-gen worship pastor. Started leading at Pellissippi. be we didn't really have a title because we had a worship pastor so it's like a more of a music pastor.

Spencer:
[1:26] This isn't about you so you can just

Dillan:
[1:28] And then uh just.

Spencer:
[1:30] Just like we need the history we're not asking you what your job you

Dillan:
[1:33] Did look at me though for context and i was giving that to you uh would you, know though save it because i was almost done, okay i mean it ended there really.

Spencer:
[1:46] Okay yeah that's good jess give us a little bit of you You don't need to get into your whole life story yet, but just give us some background on you, how you ended up Faith Promise, your role here. Just from graphics of the church, help people understand a little bit about faith promise and so on and so forth.

Jess:
[2:01] Absolutely. So without going full origin story, I am from Talladega, Alabama, Ricky Bobby, super speedway. It's a real place from Alabama originally. I knew that. And then played sports all throughout high school. And my passion was sports. And so when I went to college, I was like, I'm going to do physical therapy, super popular at the time. So went to Berea College in Kentucky, actually, for my undergrad. Got a degree in exercise science junior year at Berea I tore my ACL and couldn't play ball and so I was like man can't do this have all this extra time on my hand got super involved with campus crusade at the time just a campus ministry on a lot of college campuses so Bill Bright started it so got got involved with crew got around some radically Jesus loving people and I was like man this is awesome I think I want to do something with ministry in my life so people started calling gifts out of me. Picked up a guitar, learned on YouTube during college. And they were like, hey, we need some people to lead musical, like the music side of our campus ministry meeting. So I was like, I can probably figure this out. But before that, hadn't touched guitar, really just did sports. So again, junior year of college, I'm starting to feel this story, this calling. And so I'm like, man, I think ministry might be my future. People are calling it out of me. What does this look like? I've only known sports. So finished at Berea, moved home, home-ish, so moved to Birmingham, did two years at Highlands College Ministry School,

Jess:
[3:26] And your third year there, you can either stay there and do an internship is what they call it, or you can do an extern, like externship. And so Faith Promise, I knew some people that were already here. I shout out Jackie Rucker. She was already here and I hit her up. It was like, hey, what's your experience been like at Faith Promise? And I knew Michelle Stevens was a worship pastor at the time. Very few female worship pastors in general. And so I was like, it would be cool to go there, learn from her. And then they place you after you do your internship. So you get placed. But when I moved here, I kind of just stayed. So I started as an intern and then got to oversee our training development for volunteers here at the church for a season. I've worked on with Dylan for a little bit of that and so got to oversee that process. And then 2022 was just poured into a team. Tapped on the shoulder for what would be the transition of our senior pastor out as well as his wife, Michelle, out of their current roles at the time into the worship pastor now. Been here for 11 years, which is insane.

Dillan:
[4:33] That is insane.

Jess:
[4:34] And so, I just celebrated 11 years, September 8th of this past month.

Spencer:
[4:39] Incredible. Wow.

Dillan:
[4:40] 11 years. And you are now the worship pastor.

Jess:
[4:42] I am currently. Yeah, that's awesome. Yep.

Spencer:
[4:44] Okay. So, tell us what comes with that. You guys are a multi-site church. That's right. Help people understand like the way that your team functions centrally or decentralized,

Spencer:
[4:55] where does tech fall in your wheelhouse, all that kind of stuff.

Jess:
[4:59] Absolutely. So we are multi-site and at every multi-site we have what we call worship directors. So they oversee the experience. They execute the experience at their location as well as lead their volunteer teams at every location. And so that's a worship director. And then from there y'all it's volunteers like truly and so we do have some contract audio that we pay for sundays to execute those experiences that's a little bit more of a obviously a technical position and so we value excellence so we want to make sure that that is rocking and rolling not a ton of people can just step in and volunteer on an audio console yeah as we know that's

Dillan:
[5:36] Uh well they They can.

Jess:
[5:39] They can. But yeah, so we pay, we pay our, yeah, a dime a dozen. We pay our audit, some audio engineers, but beyond that worship director role, they are leading at that campus. And then. Yep. Production, same thing. Volunteers, training is super vital because of that. Yeah. Right. 52 Sundays is wild. And so obviously need a great pipeline for that and training development. So, yeah. Central, we have a central staff member, central staff members and then campus staff members. So the worship directors are their campus's main point of contact for worship. And then central staff is what resources weekends. So we resource a pro presenter package every Sunday, Ableton project. That's not to say we don't have autonomy within that wiggle room. So people could change keys if they need to at their campus level. We come together and collaborate every week as a worship staff and then agree on the centralized package. And then we run that play times six. Yeah. Times six. Okay. Bristol campus being our furthest campus away.

Dillan:
[6:46] Yeah. That's cool.

Spencer:
[6:48] Uh sidebar music directors you guys used to call those producers right

Jess:
[6:53] So, our new language for that producer is that worship director role. And they have the pathway to then grow into a worship pastor if they want to.

Spencer:
[7:03] I like that.

Dillan:
[7:03] I like it better, too.

Spencer:
[7:04] I like that a lot more. The producer thing always felt kind of like, I don't know. It's probably Dylan's idea. That's why you guys got rid of it.

Dillan:
[7:11] It wasn't my idea. It was not my idea.

Jess:
[7:14] But he championed it. Yes. Championed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, he should.

Spencer:
[7:18] That's super cool. So, help us understand, well, first of all, on the weekends, what are you doing these days? Are you bouncing around campuses or are you kind of sticking at some churches would call their mothership or their, you know, main broadcast site? Broadcast site.

Jess:
[7:35] Broadcast. Yeah. So, this is a little bit different. A year ago, organizationally, all of our central ministry heads, so not just worship, so worship, uh kids students and groups about a year ago we became broadcast we became Pellissippi staff so our Pellissippi campus is a campus but it also is our broadcast site okay so about a year ago I had more flexibility and I would be traveling campuses more but since that change where we are Pellissippi campus we focus about 70 percent of our energy to the Pellissippi campus it's huge It has so much, so many more resources, right? Not just people. People aren't resources, but things to steward 100%. And so about a year ago, we made that change. So majority of my time is here at the broadcast campus. If we have an easy peasy weekend, which, you know, what are those? But easy peasy weekend, I will stay here for our eight o'clock service and then bounce. So our campuses have a 930 and 11. Yeah, 930 and 11. broadcast has 8 9 30 11 so if that eight o'clock's cranking i'm gonna bounce to a multi-site and travel and dap some people up kiss some babies

Dillan:
[8:53] No saturday right no.

Jess:
[8:54] Saturday no saturdays yep um

Spencer:
[8:58] You just mentioned a moment ago, the idea of a worship director, and then they can become worship pastor. Help us understand like that decision and how you've led that and how that, what that process looks like for somebody and like how you make that decision.

Spencer:
[9:13] Somebody is a worship director versus worship pastor. I'm assuming it's more than just a title.

Jess:
[9:17] Absolutely. So we did a lot of work to bring uber clarity around job descriptions, right? It used to be loosey-goosey just to be straight up with you of like, hey, what are the most important things that I do as a blank, fill in the blank, kids pastor, groups pastor. So we did a lot of work to make sure that job descriptions lined up with what people were actually doing calendar wise. And so we have this distinction of a director versus a pastor. Right. Obviously, there are legal and ministerial things that come with that, like from an HR standpoint of like, hey, if you're called a pastor, it means different stuff, even tax breaks, all that. But from a culture and what I'm doing standpoint, we load everybody in as a director first. So say we are currently needing to fill a role at a campus for a worship director, depending on their experience, their schooling, their experience.

Jess:
[10:17] Proof of concept, for lack of a better term, they are going to enter in as a director unless there is in their past, they've come from a church where they were already pastoral. We would look at that and say, hey, we're going to be fair to you. You clearly already have carried pastoral responsibilities, but we want to make sure that that's what we're getting. And so worship director versus pastor, again, other than you're on a pastor on call list every month, which comes with so many fun. Gosh, those stories. Yeah. This might be rabbit trail. I won't.

Jess:
[10:48] Other than being on a pastor on call list, it does come with the responsibility and different standards for what that looks like. Not just within worship, but organizationally. I can get into it more.

Spencer:
[11:02] No, no, that's super helpful. It's funny you bring up pastor on call. So many worship pastors I talk to, that's like the bane of their existence.

Dillan:
[11:08] Oh, yeah.

Jess:
[11:10] You either have a week with no calls or a week with all the calls. Like genuinely, it's crazy.

Spencer:
[11:17] I kind of like it. Like I, so in all of my ministry experience, I feel like the worship, the worship staff always got like excused from pastor on call, which I don't think was good for us in any way, shape or form. And so I don't have a ton of personal experience needing to be pastor on call, but yeah, I'll be working with or coaching other worship leaders who are like, how do I do? I just don't. And I'm like, That's interesting that you don't want to do that.

Dillan:
[11:46] It's kind of what ministry is. Should I get started hating or should I just keep my mouth shut?

Spencer:
[11:52] Dylan, do you have any good pastoral call stories?

Dillan:
[11:54] I do, actually. They're not good.

Jess:
[11:55] Yeah. But they're stories.

Dillan:
[11:57] I have some. I mean, I remember I was sitting right outside entrance one.

Jess:
[12:01] One.

Dillan:
[12:01] Yeah. And got a call through the phone system. Oh, yeah. You guys still do that?

Jess:
[12:05] Oh, yeah. We have it on an app now. Okay.

Dillan:
[12:07] Went to my cell phone, answered it. I'm not going to get bogged in all the details, but it was a very traumatic call. And I had the same thought. i was like most worship pastors would not take this call very well yeah no it was a it was a car accident and this guy pulled out some kids that didn't make it and they weren't his kids but they were, he's like trying to cope this mom and he's saying somebody talk to he's like i just need a pastor to talk to and i had the opportunity to talk to that individual while i'm not sitting with the boys at a picture table yeah yeah cool bro it's wild yeah yeah but that's again.

Spencer:
[12:38] Kind of comes with the

Dillan:
[12:39] Tear i am lord send me yeah come.

Spencer:
[12:40] On yeah if you're not into that maybe worship director is a better... Exactly.

Jess:
[12:44] That's why there has to be a distinction to a degree.

Dillan:
[12:47] Anybody that's listening to this is thinking, okay, where is this one headed, right? We always like to bring context of who we have, where we're at. Obviously personally, this place means a lot to me. Obviously your own staff. So we could get into a million stories about do's and don'ts, lessons to learn, which would be very valuable for our listeners. But at the time we have, we want to specifically just dive in and talk about, challenges we're always asking people how even us too like we get in these rants but it's like with rant with value how do we add value to someone listening to this with the people listening i always know there's someone on the other end of the camera going i need to hear this right now so.

Dillan:
[13:29] Coming from college to intern, to now being the worship pastor at, I mean, I think still the largest church in Knoxville. Very influential church. What are some challenges that you're currently facing? And we can get into some more specific questions here in a minute. But as just a worship pastor in general, someone who could also, Spencer can talk to this. We talk and see and hear comments. People want that title as quick as they can get it. We've both experienced that. We've seen what that can do to people. We see what it can do to teams.

Dillan:
[14:08] What is the value of waiting? What is the value of learning and being patient and waiting from college, intern, worship pastor? What have you learned through that journey?

Jess:
[14:18] Gosh, that's so good. I'm grateful that's where the question got to because please wait. You are not ready until you're ready. And by ready, I mean, Psalm 78, 70 says that God called David from the sheepfolds. And David led them with upright heart and skillful hands. I wasn't ready until I was ready. Right. And so you genuinely have to love God first and genuinely have to love people before getting into anything like that with a title. And God will make it evident when it's time. And if you rush it, you're cooked. And if you do rush it and you can you can go for a little bit and figure it out but your source is depleted you run dry real quick you burn out real quick if it's not time and so value of waiting sorry that's just what popped in my head when you

Dillan:
[15:18] Answered that and you know what's cool about that is that we just had another episode that has already released but, on that episode we didn't ask we didn't craft the question that way but a story naturally came out of given it too early and he admitted I was given it too early and he failed within six weeks.

Spencer:
[15:38] That's more often that's real that's more often what we see

Dillan:
[15:42] But to add to that, But my, but I can make this place better. Yeah. If they give me the title, I can make this place better. If that person wasn't in that seat, if I was in that seat, I could be better. If I had this, if I was a leader over here, if I, so what do we say to those, those individuals that are like, if I, if I could just do, cause yes, the power of waiting, the power of being patient. We see it time and time again, successful ministry stories for those who wait, but we all know waiting is freaking hard. And we feel like we get antsy and anxiety takes over. What is the message there to someone who's listening? And like, just relax for a second.

Jess:
[16:25] Yeah, for sure. I'd push back on, you can't make a difference where you are now. Like, I could do this if I had that. Like, what are you doing now? Like, with what your hand is on, that would be evident to the people around you. And you'd get the opportunity to make something better. Best idea wins. End of the day. Like, who did it come from? I don't care. That's a freaking incredible idea. Let's roam with that. Right. So you not having the title does not mean you can't make something better. Right. How many times did we, you know, do that over the time of just like, yo, this person said it, but Dylan's idea was better. Let's ride it.

Jess:
[17:05] Just had that thought. Let's ride it. and so the culture has to be the culture has to be set up for that to be the case but i think if you're antsy what are you doing now to like make people again not make people but to be recognized for if you feel like you could make such an impact are you making that impact now with what your hand is on and so and just yes please chill it's more than it's it comes with a lot more than you think just relax relax and uh Not to Jesus juke it, but like God knows when he knows when to not he cares about you more than anything. Like if he were to to rush it, it would destroy your soul. And he don't want that ultimately, like your father who created you. He don't want you cooked. And so trust him. He'll make it happen when it needs to and impact where you are right now. Again, that's not a leadership juke John Maxwell vibe. It's true. Like what whatever your hands on, it'll be evident that you're making an impact. And the best idea should win at the end of the day, if the culture's right.

Dillan:
[18:08] Yeah, yeah, totally. I like that. I like that. Yeah. One of the best leadership lessons I've learned was from this place with Dr. Josh Whitehead. I went to him and I was that hungry, low 20-year-old kid. And I was like, I want to be a leader. I want to be seen as a leader around here. I want to lead people. And he's like, that's awesome, man. Who are you leading currently? Well- Let me, he's like, let me make it easier on you. Who are you leading today? Like who, who are you meeting with today? If you're getting paid 40 hours this week and you break that down your eight hours today, what hour will you spend leading someone today? And what's their name?

Jess:
[18:41] Right.

Dillan:
[18:41] Well, I don't have anybody today. Okay. What about tomorrow? I don't have anybody on my schedule. What about yesterday? What about next week? And I was like, I see what you're doing.

Jess:
[18:50] Yeah.

Dillan:
[18:51] Make impact where I'm at today. Cause at that, even at that time as a next gen worship pastor, I'm still over tons of volunteers. Leaders and I still need to identify leaders and I wasn't doing it that yeah, so it's great it's great message doing where you're at today yeah.

Spencer:
[19:04] Hey I want to take a quick break and tell you about MXU MXU is the one platform that you need to run your worship and tech ministry we do it through helping you train your volunteers with thousands of training videos and automated pathways we help you plan your weekend services with team messaging task management and automated scheduling and then lastly we help you actually run and execute sunday with dashboards that connect all the tools that you currently use into one place if you want to learn more about it you can head to getmxu.com now back to the show

Dillan:
[19:33] Why are you smiling.

Spencer:
[19:34] No i no i just i'm i really like what we're talking about here i feel like we talk about it a lot um Because it's a tension that continuously comes up. You know, we recently had a conversation about how the average age of folks who are in worship and tech ministry, like, tends to lean younger. Right. And so, and when we're in that earlier on stage of life, there's a lot of motivations why we might want more. Right. I mean, we also just have certain chemicals in our brain as young people that like, we're just more eager in some ways. But also um let's be really honest like sometimes people just want more because they want more pay yeah sometimes people want more because they want more security in their identity yeah

Dillan:
[20:20] Vulnerability question here yeah did that ever cross your mind if i get that title i get a bigger paycheck.

Jess:
[20:25] Zero yeah and i'm being so

Dillan:
[20:27] No i i 100 believe i actually believe jess most people i wouldn't know that, i 100 believe you 100 yeah.

Jess:
[20:33] Yeah no i would

Dillan:
[20:34] Say really if i didn't believe.

Spencer:
[20:37] But it is sadly that is a common thing and I if I look back at like 15 years ago when I was first starting out in ministry like yeah as a young as a young male who wanted to provide is getting married like I'm like yeah I gotta for sure and and I look back and go man I just wish somebody would have like shook me a little bit and gotten the truth out of me and some of that yeah so that I could level with that and go okay lord What are you actually trying to teach me? Because I think we know how to package things in both things in a way to make it sound real nice. Like you're saying, I want to lead people. It's like, we know the words and what to say, but we have to actually sit there and inventory our heart and go, why do I actually want this? And so, yeah, I think your response to that, Jess, is right on the money. And if there's somebody in your life who's telling you like, hey, chill, be patient. I know I had somebody in my life doing that and I villainized them. Don't villainize that person who's trying to help you that's right and and if they are so bad and so scary and such a problem in your life then you probably should just up and go somewhere else then you know like if if you can't humble yourself under that person's leadership so

Dillan:
[21:48] We know time and time again we all have friends and we know people in ministry and even outside of ministry like just if you're chasing the dollar you'll never stop chasing because you'll never catch it yep you can make 120 a year you can make 40 a year and you never make enough money that's right You'll just never make enough money because you're chasing the absolute wrong thing. So I would 100% believe. That's good. Jessica, would you rather have influence or would you have money?

Jess:
[22:10] Influence for sure.

Dillan:
[22:11] 100%. Yeah. I got asked that question a lot when I was here by, again, Dr. Josh Whitehead, would you rather have influence or money? And it was always influence. That's real. Give me influence. Yeah.

Spencer:
[22:20] Interesting. Okay. So something else I want to dive into. Part of the reason I was super excited to sit down with Jess. So I think I've told you this, Jess. Maybe I haven't Dylan I I think you know this my mom was a worship pastor growing up so I always tell people I was a pastor's kid and they're like oh what did your dad do and I'm like oh no actually it was my mom yeah yeah and I saw my mom through the 90s and some of the 2000s like navigate some real issues

Dillan:
[22:47] Who's your mom's biggest influence I have a guess.

Spencer:
[22:52] One, two, three. Darlene check. Okay. So, great. Love that. All that to say. And I should say, maybe I should ask her though, like, cause I know there were seasons too in that whole worship. Oh, you're female. You're worship director, not worship pastor. So, we were in a Baptist church. Anyways. So, I was really excited to sit down with you, Jess. And cause I feel like I've, I saw a lot of that sleeping under the pews on Sunday morning during rehearsal. And, you know, My mom would recruit all of us kids to help her out on the platform. She didn't have enough volunteers and so on and so forth. But I'm really curious to know for you leading probably one of the largest, if not the largest church in Knoxville with many locations, what it has been like to be not only a young leader, a young female leader, where, and I think I said this before we started recording. We serve thousands of churches and I don't think I can name a female worship pastor that I know today. And so, you know, we can be as candid and real as we want to be here, but I know that there's somebody listening who is like, wait, I can, I could be a worship pastor. I'm a young woman who I've never seen anybody do that, you know? And so I'd just be curious, like some of the challenges that you found along the way. And I'm sure we'll get a little bit deeper into that as we go.

Jess:
[24:16] Oh, yeah.

Dillan:
[24:17] Can I say some context before you?

Jess:
[24:19] Yeah.

Dillan:
[24:20] So, the challenges may not be specifically being a woman inside of this ministry. Sure. Because our worship pastor has been a woman for the last 30 years. So, the internal culture of inside of these four walls, it's probably been fine. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to answer for you. But I wanted to bring context to listeners that Jessica wasn't the first lady worship pastor in this organization. that's an important part to note. But I will just say, being a woman of color at a church in Knoxville, Tennessee, you might have a little bit more to say regarding that. But I'm going to open the floor to you. I want to hear your stories.

Jess:
[24:59] That's good. Grateful for that context. That's what I was going to say, too, because, again, grateful for a church that does champion females across the board. But a challenge I would say and this is this goes back to like me being raised period in the south black female I always felt like whether it was right wrong or indifferent I needed to go twice as hard

Jess:
[25:29] Again I told you I'll grow up playing sports be twice as good as whoever because you almost come in at a deficit just straight up culturally that's what I've faced how I've grown up. Hey, you're already at a deficit because of two things, female and you are black. And so I already had this mindset in my brain of, I need to speak correctly. My mom raised us. My mother, the way she even named me and my siblings was like, on a job application, I want you to have a fair shot. So I'm going to name you certain names. And so again, that's how I was raised anyway. And in the context of ministry, we see it. Like, I don't see myself at a, at a mega church. Like, let's be real. And that was a wrestle I had with God, even as he was calling me to this, this kind of space, right. Of like, I don't look like the rest God. And he's like, exactly. You shouldn't. That's why I, that's why I'm calling you here. Right. For a

Jess:
[26:31] To not just ride on personality stuff, right? I feel this big need to be competent, right? And so that's a challenge in and of itself. Music, all day. Like, I feel confident music all day. Production, that's why you put people around you. But production, I'm like, I don't know that stuff as well. And so I have this big deal of like competence when it comes to big purchases. We did a PA purchase. I'm like, Lord, help me. Like, the Lord can only help you so much. Then you got to get into the gritty of like numbers and stewardship and all that. And so again, being a female, I bring all that up. Being a female can make me feel like I'm at a deficit sometimes in that, but I have to trust that God called me. I'm going to put the right people around me to help me with some of these things. And then the being in the South, again, I grew up here, So

Jess:
[27:26] It's not new to me, not news to me, just the awareness that I walk around with of just like, hey, I am aware God's called me, yes, and I am aware of what being in this space means for different people at different times. So for the person that might slant their eye at me for whatever reason, I'm going to love them the same. I'm going to lead them the same, steward them the same. The person that looks like me that needs to see me to know, oh, I can, she's up there. Man, I can maybe be up there one day. To the young ladies in general that I've gotten to speak life into, it's just a huge privilege and an honor. And so, yes, I walk around aware and I can't let that slow me down because God has people for me to raise up, call things out of like people did for me. And so the challenge is awareness that externally some people might feel some type of way versus what God called me to and not to not to skirt those people. Heisman them. No, like God called me to those if they're difficult, those people as well. And he's going to give me grace for impact, period. it. Yeah.

Dillan:
[28:33] It's also very important to to, also know that you have a, you're in this spot also because leadership sees it and they don't see the, they don't see the things we're talking about. Like you have a leadership that trusts you. So that's why you're in this position. What would you say to someone who was in the waiting, who is a female and feel like their leadership doesn't trust them quite yet? What are some ways to you've given some artists some great one-liners to earn the trust to gain that trust but dial that in like what are some ways that someone

Dillan:
[29:10] can hear this and go man i want that trust that she has with her leadership.

Jess:
[29:13] That's that's so good um again not to jesus juke pray on that thing um pray on it and get some get some values personal values about yourself that you're going to be I'm going to be consistent. I'm going to show up on time. I'm gonna show up early. I'm gonna stay a little bit later. Again, it's not the things that you are doing. It's the person you want to become. Pray into that. Ask the Holy Spirit, hey, what kind of person do I want to be to where what God has placed on my life? I know he's spoken it to me. If he's spoken it to you,

Jess:
[29:52] Then you have some action to take, right? I'm going to be a person that values, write it down, pray on it, pray it into yourself, speak it out about yourself. And that's who you start to become. And so again, it's not just that spiritual deal. So yes, it is spiritual. And then moving into practical, again, it's going to be, what do I currently have? I love that question. Hey, who are you leading now? Like, if you can't answer it, the trust won't be there because you weren't already doing it. And again, do it from an altruistic, self-motivated place first because you can't sustain it if you are only doing it for the opportunity. So that's really who you have to be. Be who you say you are. And at the end of the day, that trust will be earned if you consistently are that person at the end of the day. But be that person for goodness sake. Or when you do get the opportunity and the lights are on, you can't sustain it if that's not who you really were like at the end of the day.

Spencer:
[30:49] So that's really good. Okay. Um, I'm curious to know, looking back, like from the seat you're in now, what is something you wish that you applied yourself to more in preparation for the task that you have in front of you right now? I hear from a lot of young, um, if I do hear from like, uh, a young leader, male or female, who's like wanting to prep and it's like, hey man, if you want to be a worship pastor, you probably need to have some understanding of music to be able to successfully lead your team or whatever, practical things that you might look back and go,

Spencer:
[31:28] man, I really wish I would have taken that more seriously earlier on.

Jess:
[31:31] Absolutely. Great, great stuff. This might be Um, it's not technical or musical. It's going to be communication. My goodness, vision and communication. Uh, what's that? There's like a phrase, the most dangerous thing about communication is assuming that it, it happened or something like that. My goodness, the amount of bugaboos and like just issues that I've faced in this seat now for lack of just simply lack of communication or what people heard has like come back and gotten me so much. So communication in the sense of the people that need to hear from me consistently,

Jess:
[32:16] I wish I would have already had a practice in place for that, if that makes sense, because the whole no news is good news, that's not a thing, right? Right. So when there's silence or a gap in communication or vision, people drift and slip. And I wish I would have known that and just put some stuff, I think, in my personal life of like, hey, I'm going to over communicate when it comes to this so that on the back end, there's not these issues. That's been the biggest thing over my time. And obviously, I already brought this up, but like just the production side of things. Again, I don't have to know it all, but just like I got to know some. You have to care. I got to care and I got to know some stuff. Right. And it can't just be the spiritual music and then productions down here. I never touch it. So those two things, communication has been so, so big, so big, for sure.

Dillan:
[33:05] For the record. I was overproduction at this church and didn't know anything about production.

Jess:
[33:10] He left me, he bounced. And I'm like, I was just going to lean on Dylan. Yeah.

Dillan:
[33:14] You had the wrong person to lean on for production.

Spencer:
[33:17] Yeah. That's something that I'm always trying to remind in talking with worship pastors who they, I think oftentimes it can be an insecurity of theirs or a fear of, I just don't know that world and so they almost as a defense mechanism will be like that's not me that's yeah folks in the back bless their hearts they're great but like we focus up here and it's like no man dive in because ultimately that's right uh they yeah they kind of have the ability to distract this whole thing yeah and uh so they're

Jess:
[33:51] Awesome dude i love our production team like i know this is i'm not trying to guess guess that up because of this specific platform but gosh they're awesome and And like the people they are and then like when they feel a part of it and you see them, when you see the lighting operator worshiping, that's my favorite thing. More than the people on this platform because you're elevated. But like when they're back there doing it, it's super special. And so, valuing them enough to be knowledgeable enough so I can help them is a big deal. Like I've learned that over time, but absolutely.

Dillan:
[34:24] Pastor gets 30, worship gets 30, production gets an hour. Yeah. That's how I'll break down a service. yeah pastor gets 30 worship gives 30 production's an hour absolutely it's very very.

Jess:
[34:34] Important they eat first yep very catering get get your plate first because you're stuck once the once the service starts they're stuck

Spencer:
[34:42] 100 100 i know we want to honor your time jess i appreciate you coming on thank you so much absolutely thank you this is this is a i feel

Dillan:
[34:49] Like this is a podcast we could talk for another three.

Spencer:
[34:51] Hours we we really could um around two and uh you know we used to back in a number of years ago Grace Royce who used to be on the podcast with the guys a lot for production conversations but like I don't think in the hundreds of episodes we've had, we really had a female guest.

Dillan:
[35:12] Yeah.

Spencer:
[35:12] Which is crazy to think about. Like in this community, when I do get the opportunity to talk, there is something really refreshing talking to you, Jess, about this stuff because I don't know, there's a different grace that comes from females at times, honestly. Maybe that's sexist of me to say, but it's like, I think it's just true. Like, and sometimes with men, we deal with a lot of pride. We deal with a lot of egos. we deal with a lot of blinders i should say and so it is really cool to get your perspective on these things because you know you've had to say multiple times in this conversation i don't want to jesus juke you or i don't want it but it's like thank you for saying it because oftentimes we have the opposite issue in the worship in production community which is do you know jesus yeah

Dillan:
[36:01] I had the same thought when you kept saying that i was like no we need all the jesus juking we can get. Yeah.

Spencer:
[36:05] For sure. And I know those of you listening, you might be a little bit jaded because you just got out of staff meeting and you heard the same thing and you're tired of hearing the same thing. If you're tired of hearing it, maybe do some inventory. Like, because I've been there. Yeah. You know, but I just think there's something. Yeah. I get really excited about what you're doing here at Faith Promise and for all the young females out there who are listening, who are in worship or production roles. Man, And I'm seeing very directly how God is using like the giftings that come like with female leadership in worship and tech community. And you're more than just an admin.

Dillan:
[36:51] Yeah.

Spencer:
[36:51] More than just like the person who makes sure that like people show up on time. Yeah. And I think sometimes we like to put females in that box in the worship and technical community. And uh when i've like i said i don't know many worship pastors these days but i see a lot of women leading in the tech space and a lot of them are running circles around some of our male leaders because of the way that they have foresight and the way that they love people yeah and so anyways it's cool it's cool to have you on um dylan anything else you want to say

Dillan:
[37:22] No it's been great thank you yeah.

Spencer:
[37:24] If you want to learn more uh we'll link faith promise you want to learn more about what they're up to here at the church. If you want to learn more about MXU, we'll put a link in the description as well. Weekend Ready Playbook. But yeah, thanks so much for joining us on the MXU podcast. We'll see you next time.