The MxU Podcast

Should we
just give up on

having a timer

for the sermon?

Pastor doesn't
even care.

You know,

pastor
just goes over

every single
week.

Why does it

matter to a

production
person

how long the

pastor
preaches?

How do we
forecast that?

Because we're
not going to.

Hey, pastor.
You're done.

The Spirit of

God is moving

in our worship
service.

But oh, timers,
we're done.

How do we
effectively

track
service times

going into
the weekend

or project
service

time tracking?

So it's helpful

I mean, we've

all set
those services

where
we're going.

This feels
really long.

Okay,

so I've been

talking to

a lot

of churches

because of
dashboards

being released
now in MxU.

You're going to

have a lot of
questions cause

I don't

even think

you've used
dashboards.

You don't know
what it does,

and that's
great.

So feel free
to ask

questions away
there. What?

What now?

Because you're
attacking me.

Okay. Sorry.

We just started

this episode
just now,

and you've

already
attacked me.

In the first

three
sentences,

I wasn't
attacking.

I was just

saying you

haven't used
dashboards,

and that's
okay.

Well,
it's fine,

it's fine.

It hurts
my feelings

a little bit.

But you've
said, though

recently

for a

live producer,

that there are
some things

that could

potentially
help,

like my business
and could potentially help

for a live
production?

What?
Like outside.

Yes, Outside

the full time
church world.

Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.

Yes, yes,

we'll
talk about that

because I'd be

interested
to know more.

Yeah.

I've been
having a lot of

conversations
with churches

about service
timing.

Okay.

So keeping
track of

plan items,

how long
they're going,

so on
and so forth.

Most churches

have a plan

going into
the weekend.

Right.

In Planning
Center.

What songs
are we doing?

Maybe some
aren't really.

They have like
default times

that they
don't pay

attention
to. Right.

But there is a
time in there,

and a lot of
the questions

that we're
getting

around here is,

how should we

be setting up

our service
timing?

I think

this could be

right
up your alley,

because

kind of

goes in line

with what
you do.

They're asking
you how this

service timing.

Yeah,
they're getting

in MxU – 60
minute service.

They're
getting in

MxU and
they're like,

okay,
this is sweet.

Now I have this

this purpose
built system

to automatically
track my service

timing.

So. Well,

first
of all, some

people are
like, well,

why does that
even matter?

It matters

because we can

now track
things

like SPL

and live

stream
viewership

and all these

other
data points

at the plan

item level,
right?

So they can see
exactly

when viewers

are dropping

off how

loud each
element of

the service is.

That's why
it matters.

Also,
just for review

at the

at the end of
this weekend,

it's like, hey,

we're going

long on
announcements

by five minutes

every single
service

that matters.

But I think

some folks
are going,

how do we

how do we even

build this out
in a way that,

like pastor

who knows

how long pastor

is going
to preach?

How do we
forecast that?

How would we go
about

because we're
not going to.

Hey, pastor,
you're done.

Get off stage.

Right.

Like, no

pastor is going

to preach
until pastor's

done preaching.

How do we
effectively

track
service times?

Going into
the weekend

or project
service

time tracking

so we can
effectively

actually
measure

on the other
side?

Make sense?

Yeah,
I mean, I'm

my first
thought is

who sets

the service

times for your
church?

Is it
your pastor?

Is your

creative
director

creative
pastor,

executive
pastor,

some your board
elders,

leadership
teams?

Yeah.

Most churches

are going to
have like, hey,

we do 90
minute services

or we do 60
minute

services,
right?

Yeah,

I know I was

I know
of a church

that says

we do around

a 60 minute
experience

or 60 minutes
church service

so that they're

not actually

so people at 58

aren't looking

at their
watches going,

okay,
we know we have

two minutes
left. Yeah.

Like they will

say from stage
and hosting,

hey, we around

here we do
about a

60 minute,

you know,
church service

to let
them know

you're
not going to be

I mean because

I mean, we've
all set

in those church

where
we're going.

This feels
really long.

Looking around
like what?

How much?

Oh pastors,

you know, he's
three minutes,

but you see
it's also

very cultural.

It's very,
very cultural.

Sit in lobby

one time
with a guy

with a pastor
from Nigeria.

And they don't

do 60 minute
services.

They’re
doing like.

Yeah,
they're doing

like 60 hours
service. Yeah.

And that's
one extreme.

But then you
have even here

in America,

in South

American
culture,

I mean,

different
denominations

are going
to run

90 minutes to
2 hours easy,

you know.

So the

question
is, is who

set your
service times

and why why

why are we 60
minute service?

Why were we 45

minute service.

Why do we do

20 minutes
of worship.

Why do we do

30 minutes
of teaching?

Is it 30 and 30

split
down the center

just, you know?

So assuming
somebody

already knows

what their

culture is
like, hey,

we do
four songs,

that's roughly
20 minutes

unless you're
doing

certain Bethel

arrangements
and so on

and so forth.

But, you know,

20 minutes
of worship.

You know,
announcements.

You know,

everybody does

a little
differently.

But assuming
somebody knows

their kind of

overall culture

and roadmap for
the weekend,

for songs, it's
pretty easy.

We know the

arrangement,
right?

We can get down
to like

pretty close
to the minute

or to

the second

of how
long a song is.

So what do you
agree like that

based on
a click track?

Yeah,

but if your model is more of a

watch
your music

director,
watch your

worship leader.

That's just

the structure
of the click

track to a song
you're.

But they're
practicing

an arrangement

for the most
part.

Like, yes,
every now

and then
there's off

the cuff.

We're going an
extra minute.

We're off
tracks.

Can't plan
those things

and that's
fine.

Like that's a

yeah,
I've seen it to

where
timers are hit

for 18 minutes.

You have 18
minutes to do worship.

And we know

roughly
the three

three songs
you’re doing

inside that
18 minutes.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like

some people

are resistant
to timers

because
they think,

well this now

this starts

to feel
manufactured.

How do we know
some,

some folks

who believe

in the Holy
Spirit

out there who

would
say, well, how

so? Spirit of
God is moving

on our worship
service.

But oh, timers,

we're done,
right?

Like, I totally
get it.

Like,

we don't want

timers to be

this thing
that, like,

limits
what maybe

God can do
in a service

and a gathering,
but it's still it.

Don't

throw

the whole thing out.
You still have a plan.

And when
we know we went

five minutes
over.

Oh, yeah.

There was

that one moment

in the service
where that one

person needed
prayer. Yeah.

Or there was
that one moment

in the service
where.

Okay, great.

Well,
now we know why

we went over.

It's it's
not a bad thing

just knowing on

the other side

how we planned.

So yeah.

With worships

pay attention

to the
arrangements.

If you're using
loops

very easy.

If you're using

tracks
super easy

to be able to

understand
or project

how long those

items are going
to go.

Now, when
it comes

to the sermon,

I'm curious

what you would
say because I've

gotten this
question a lot.

Should we
just give up on

having a timer

for the sermon?

Pastor doesn't
even care.

You know,

pastor
just goes over

every single
week.

What?

How would you

how would you

set up timing
for the sermon?

And how would you monitor that

on a weekend?

Very cautiously.
Cautiously. I mean,

the last thing
you want to do

for whoever's

preaching
that weekend

could be
a pastor,

could be a
guest speaker,

could be
anybody

is put them
inside of a box

and they now

feel rushed as

a communicator.

I know
because my team

is constantly

beating down
my door or

kid’s ministry

or whatever
is happening.

The parking lot

teams
is constantly

beating down
my door.

Communicators

feel that
stress

when they're

getting in there
into their stuff,

and they start

seeing that
timer

go down.
They start

rushing,
fumbling.

Now very

experienced
communicators,

the ones
that are

really good at
what they do,

can look

at a 30 minute
clock and go,

I know exactly

how to

dissect that
30 minutes down

and get every
point across.

So I'm a I'm
a huge believer

of say too much

you’ve said
nothing at all.

I mean,
you lost me

20 minutes ago
because I,

I just,

I you're

saying the same

things over
and over again.

I have
no idea what

you're saying.

You know,

we we've
been on

shows or events

or in church

services
as well,

where
it's like,

hey, do
you want us to

set the timer

to start
going into red

when you're
done communicating?

When we ask for

communicators,
I'm like,

no, don't.

Because that

that that can

be such
a mental.

But also you'll
always know

in my position
I say anybody

and everybody
that's on

that stage
gets timer.

Everybody.

And we only do
today.

We've only done
really faith

based events.

So hosting
communicators,

worship
leaders,

whether
you stay in

that time

or not,

me as a
production team

or me
as a person

in my position
of the church

or in live

events,
I have done

what I'm
supposed to do

by giving you
that timer.

If you stay

in that time
or not.

That's
completely up

to you
in leadership.

How y'all want

to dissect
that down,

how you want
to fix that,

you let me know.
But I've done my part.

So for
production

person
to be like,

my attitude
is, well,

what's the

point of

throwing up

a timer

because
the pastor

doesn't
go by the

to the timer
anyways?

That to me

that's an out

of turn
question

that that is
not your place

to ask
that question.

Your place

is to
hear your responsibilities,

your role,
your title,

your job
description.

You're here

to serve
this house.

I've asked for

a 30 minute
timer.

If I take
55, who cares?

To put. Me.

Boom boom

So really,

the best
practice

there would be
to go to

your pastor
and say,

hey pastor,

what would be

helpful
for you?

Like,
what are you

aiming for
every week?

You want to
20 minutes?

Why does it

matter

to a production

person
how long the

pastor
preaches?

Yeah,

I think really

the only reason

because

they want to

get out and
go to lunch,

no, I don't,

I think

where it

matters to them

is they're
responsible

for keeping
track.

Usually is

what I'm finding
is they're responsible for

like measuring

and making sure

that the right

number is
on the screen

for the pastor.

And okay,
are we tracking

elapsed time?

Are we like,

how are we
actually

executing this.

So it's helpful

to the
communicator.

But also when

the executive
pastor

after the
service

comes
and asks, hey,

how much
should we

go over
this service?

Oh, we went
over this much.

Here's
how we track.

So on
and so forth.

Yeah,
I'm totally

good with that.

So they're

they're
not like, oh

I'm bothered.

Pastor

goes over
every week.

It's more

you and I have

both had plenty

of conversations with
people in the

production team

who are
bothered

by how long
pastor.

Yeah, it's
a control.

It's a, it's a

this didn't
go to plan.

And usually
production

people
like when

things go to
plan their plan

their plan.

Right.

So ultimately.

Yeah I've

some people

have also
brought up

well we need
to know

when the band.

This has

been a really interesting one.

Like how

well I'll
back up

a little bit.

So part of
dashboards is,

is being able
to like pipe

a dashboard
backstage

maybe

timers, mic
assignments,

service order

or current plan
items.

Like you can

put a bunch of

stuff
back there

on a, on a TV

or display
of sorts,

and they're
like, hey,

I need to
figure out

a way

to cue
the band,

go back out
on stage. But

week after
week,

like, we

can't really use
timers to do that

because pastor
goes over

and so trying

to figure out,
okay,

how should we
reliably

do this

for that
particular

use case?

And to me,

it seemed a bit
obvious,

like, okay,

just first of all,
if your band is

sitting there
listening

to the last

five minutes
of the sermon

every like
just waiting,

that's not
the worst thing

in the world.

Like they don't

it better to be

like ready

than not

on stage at
the right time.

I think maybe
finding that,

like, average
or maybe even

just like the
minimum, like,

what's
the shortest

pastor has ever

gone on a

on a typical
weekend?

Is it
20 minutes.

That's. Yeah.

And that's,
that's

still looking
at it

from the angle
of time.

Minutes
and seconds

on the clock

could be wrong
with this, but

I think it's

more rare

that we have no

idea what pastor
is talking about

on Sundays.

That's
rare. Yeah.

Anybody on

that worship
team production

team should know
roughly what pastor is

talking about.

We can
look at this

sermon size
we've created.

We can look

at his
sermon notes

that he may

have sent to us

that morning, but
we still have

them.

We know that
last point is,

hey, here,

I'm going to

talk about

the story of
my wife

and I getting
married.

Well,
that's our

that's our time
to to to

clock in like,

you know what
I'm saying?

Like from
production

to worship.

So when he hits

that last
point, it's

going back to

dashboards

in the
green room

or the wherever
they're at

and saying,

hey, we

pastors on his
last point,

please
make your way

to stage. Yeah.

I like the
question, and I know

where you're
coming from

because I've

also had

tons of
conversations

with timers
like timers,

timers, timers.

I don't want to

get stuck
on the clock.

There are
other ways

to know
when pastors

landing
that plane.

Yeah.

Outside of

outside
of a time.

If you're stuck
on the clock,

that's okay,

because
you might

have been wired

that way

as a production
person.

But there are

different ways
to know

when you're
pastors.

You've heard
your pastor

preach
every Sunday.

You know,
when he's

landing
that plane.

Well, okay,
so an idea

I gave
somebody to,

usually
it's not every

in every
environment,

but usually

pastors like,

hey, when
I get to

this last slide

or this last
point, okay,

so now you
you could

automate,

basically from
probe centers,

operators,

actions
like, hey,

when this slide

gets executed,

start
this timer.

Yeah. Right.

So there's

there's ways
technically to

do that.

You know,

if you can

do that
in dashboards.

Yeah.

Oh that's
great.

Yeah.

Things like
that. Exactly.

Even even
us. Exactly.

We are actually

talking
about this

earlier today.

This isn't
available yet.

But like

the ability
to send.

Imagine this.

You're a

service
producer

and you want to

be able
to get the

band on stage.

What if

at the same,

like,

all at the same
time,

they get a

push notification
to their phone,

they get a
message

via talk backs
and message

on dashboards,

get on stage,

all just like

automatically
from you.

So like

we're even
talking about

just like what?

Because I mean,

you've been
there.

You're like,

hey, where's
so-and-so?

Oh, they're in
the bathroom.

Oh, where's
where are they?

Oh, they went
to get coffee

really quick
or whatever.

It's like,
okay,

if there was

just a
reliable way

to notify
everybody

that needed
to be

at a in a

certain place

in time to be
able to do that

for a more cool
one spot.

So there's

a lot of

ways that
we can use

technology
to, to,

to help
in these areas.

But it all goes
back to

people
are like,

okay, cool,
I have this

this has been

interesting
because

you were
just in this,

this season of

we're bringing

a bunch

of technology
and functionality

into.

The churches
we serve,

like in some

really
innovative,

exciting ways.

And they're
like, well,

this is
awesome.

I have all this, but like, how

should I be
using it?

Because now

they're having

to ask the
question like,

oh, well,

now I can track
service,

but how should
I be doing this?

Because before

wasn't really
a reliable way

to track
service time.

So I just
kind of like

didn't
really do it.

So yeah,

it's been an
interesting,

Yeah.

Interesting
conversations.

Yeah.

Again,
I don't know if

love the
conversation,

but let's not
get married

to timers
and and allow

that to be a

point
of discussion

for our pastors

and my opinion,
you know,

holding them

accountable
to a clock.

Well, pastor
is going to go

as long as
pastor

wants to go.

So we can't
really plan

for anything
else.

Where
you got to go?

Yeah.

You know, like,

what are you

what are you
trying what are you

trying to get
out there for,

like, your job
to be there

on Sunday
mornings.

You signed up
for it.

I would just

push back
though.

Like,

sometimes
we make plans

in the church

on Sunday
morning

and there are
people

usually in
production

are responsible

for executing
those plans.

That's
it though.

And those
plans are going

to come from
your pastor.

Yeah, yeah,
yeah.

I guess what

I'm saying is
sometimes

the people
who are

responsible
for executing

those plans

get put in
a heart spot

because,

I mean, let's
talk about,

again, it's all

very overcome.

I'm just being

I'm playing

devil's
advocate

because I feel

like in
some ways

you're being
dismissive.

I'm being
dismissed.

Yeah.

I feel like

you're being
dismissive

of some of

the task

that a

production person
is responsible for,

or even think
about ushers

and parking
lot people

responsible
for getting

cars in
and out.

Okay, well,
pastor goes

15 minutes

later than they
should.

Or ten minutes
later

standing in a
parking lot

with no shade.

Yeah,
you got me on

that one.

I'm listening.

You're talking
about the kids

person
that's in kids.

Yeah.

Managing 40
screaming kids.

I guess
that's what

I'm saying.

You got me

on that
production.

People know

you're
sitting there

for in a house

sipping on
Lacroix.

You're fine,
you're fine.

Oh, man,

I'm just
drawing. I'm.

I'm drawing
the example

that in some
ways, yeah,

it impacts
everybody

who's helping

make the
weekend happen,

including
production,

I agree.

I'm being
a little bit.

Yeah.

You know,
starting spot.

Yeah.

There are

definitely
conversations

that we had

if pastors

consistently
going along

and it's
not the norm.

I mean, it's
not the

that's a whole

other episode
of like

how to have that conversation,

but that's what

that's
what's lacking.

You have a
conversation as a production

person.

If you

if you have

that direct

line to

your pastor

and your pastor

is looking
at you

every weekend
going,

man, we've got

to figure out
ways to shave,

I don't know

why we're
running

67 minutes
every week.

I have
no idea why.

And that's
common,

that I mean,
pastors

really have
no idea why,

but they spoke

for 43 minutes.
Yeah.

Then that
conversation

comes with,

hey, like you

said earlier, where
do you want

to be?

What time do
you want to be

as a
as a speaker?

I mean, on my
heart recently

I feel like
my, my,

my 35
to 38 minutes,

I feel like
that's my

that's my time.
Great.

Are you good?

If I go have a

conversation
with worship,

we might look

at scaling

some worship

back just
to make sure

we're inside
that clock

that you've
given us.

Yeah, that's
honestly

where I stand

everywhere
else.

Calm down.

I'm just
stirring

the pot
a little bit.

Get people
think.

But yeah,
yeah, yeah.

Overall it's a,

find,
find a way

that you can

even if it
feels like

an inconsistent
measurable,

like some way

you can

bring
some level

of consistency
to that

in the way that
we're timing

and not just

be like

African it
after worship,

we're done

timing
the service.

Like there's
just no way to,

you know,

make it
happen. So,

yeah,
if we've been

talking
about it

a lot on here,

just some of

the new
functionality

and MQ
dashboards,

being able

to keep track
of all this.

If you want to
learn more,

you can put
a demo.

We'll
put a link in

the description

below
on YouTube

if you're

watching there

or in the show
notes

if you're
if you're

listening
with us.

But yeah,

all of all of
this is

really exciting
for us

to talk about,

mainly
just because

some of these

problems have

existed for
a long time,

and we haven't

really
had the tools

to be able
to actually

help us
solve them.

Now we do.

It's called

MSU, so we'd

love to
show you it.

This would be
good.

Thanks, Dylan.

Appreciate you.

Hey. You're
welcome.

Thanks
for letting me

interview you.

Service timing
with Dylan.

How we can say
anything

with weekend
ready?

There you go,
co-founder.

There you go,

Dylan.
Let it all out.

Thanks for
joining us

on the podcast.

We'll see
you next time.