The MxU Podcast

Meg:
[0:00] So, me and my husband are transitioning. We're actually going back to my home church in Georgia. I'll be the associate pastor. Yeah. I'll be the associate pastor.

Dillan:
[0:11] I don't understand these podcasts. There's always a bomb in the middle of the podcast.

Meg:
[0:17] So, our boys have no clue we're going back to Georgia.

Dillan:
[0:20] Wow.

Meg:
[0:20] No clue.

Spencer:
[0:26] Hey, everybody. we are at charity church in are we in indianapolis where are we right now indianapolis and we are with pastor meg and isaac uh meg you're the worship pastor isaac you are production director yep right um man we're pumped to be here thanks for having us hey give us a just high level understanding of charity church makeup of your church yeah who are your people and a little bit of history on the church yeah

Isaac:
[0:55] So um the church has been around since 1952, um we're an independent pentecostal church and, um yeah we're what else can i say about that um it's we're kind of i like to think of us as like a mix of like old school pentecostal and kind of modern contemporary you know sound look, um one of our values is a church's intergenerational ministry so um you know we're not trying to appease anyone, but we do want to engage all of our generations, you know, with each other, but also, you know, as a church engaging with, you know, different generations within the church. Yeah.

Spencer:
[1:37] And what's your pastor's name, by the way?

Isaac:
[1:39] Pastor Paul Slagle.

Spencer:
[1:41] Okay. How long has he been here?

Isaac:
[1:42] He's been here 14?

Meg:
[1:44] Yeah. He's been the lead pastor for 14, going on 15 years. Yeah. He was born and raised in the church. Okay. That's very church. It's very generational. Yeah. His great, great? One-time great or two-time great? Grandfather and grandmother are the founding pastors of the church. And then his uncle David, which is Pastor David, they call him Pastor Emeritus, which was the pastor before him, is the child of Pastor Hazel and Louis Gibson.

Isaac:
[2:16] And Louis Gibson, yeah.

Meg:
[2:17] And so it's Pastor Hazel and Louis Gibson, then Pastor David, and Pastor Paul. There's only been three pastors.

Isaac:
[2:24] In the 70-something years.

Meg:
[2:25] In the 70-something years. Wow.

Dillan:
[2:27] Okay.

Spencer:
[2:28] So, I know this because we talked about this before we started rolling. You guys are transplants. What's it like being transplants into a church with so much history and, you know, being kind of the new kids on the block?

Isaac:
[2:41] I love it. So, when I came to visit the church, it felt like home right away. They're so welcoming.

Meg:
[2:50] Yeah.

Isaac:
[2:51] When I came to visit, everyone's like, hey, great to meet you. you know, so glad that you're here and it's just very welcoming and it's felt that way it hasn't changed there hasn't been any kind of mood shift while working here you know or anything but.

Meg:
[3:08] I think with it being like so intergenerational with with their family they made us feel like family yeah you know what i mean and so it doesn't feel it's not oh well we're the founding people there's not like an air about them like they love you yes they want you to feel at home and so when you come in it's like automatic just you feel like family they just embrace you for who you are they challenge you they push you that they believe in you and i think just that effort they built a really big culture of worship here yeah like the my predecessor pastor jacqueline she was the worship pastor for 35 years you know and so she and holy spirit i mean just phenomenal worship team they've built a house of worshipers you come in every age is represented in the altars i mean men that are in their 70s and 80s worshiping the Lord, you know, and.

Isaac:
[4:07] Right alongside. Yeah.

Meg:
[4:09] A. Youth. Yeah. Or a five-year-old or.

Isaac:
[4:11] Yeah.

Meg:
[4:11] You know, like we believe, you know, even our children are in worship with us. Yeah. And until they go into their classes after worship, because we just believe that coming together as one, worshiping as one. And it just has bring that, that family atmosphere out even more.

Dillan:
[4:26] Yeah.

Meg:
[4:27] You know, it made us, made you feel apart. You walk in and it's like, I've never, like I grew up in church my whole life. I grew up in an agey church and I love them. And I was like, this feels like family just as much as the family, you know, back home. Yeah.

Dillan:
[4:43] Was there any or is there any Sometimes when we move into churches that as a paid position, pastoral role, director role, especially in churches where everyone knows each other and we've been kind of doing the same thing the same way for many, many, many years. Have you seen or gotten any pushback? Do you know where I'm going with this? Yeah. Have you seen any like pushback to new ideas or different ways to look at things? And if you did how have you been able to keep those team members and bring them along of this potentially new journey i know that might be a sensitive question

Isaac:
[5:26] But i just the reason i laughed is because like i've i think i've i feel like i've seen it done well and i've seen it done i don't say poorly but not the best yeah um so, This is a really unique place because even though there's so much legacy here, they're very open to trying new things and trying different avenues and following on different opportunities. And I really get the sense that they are ministry minded as far as like if there's an opportunity for ministry, it's like, great, how can we get it started? Sometimes I think we take that a little too far where it's like, great, now we have like a bunch of ministries that are up and running, but we have a small staff team. So that is like, okay, slow down, guys.

Meg:
[6:12] You can't sustain that. Yeah.

Isaac:
[6:13] Like, that's great that you want to do that, but a little much. Like, don't chase all the opportunities. With that being said, though, when I started, there was a lot of, I felt a lot of encouragement to try new things. Yeah. And to even bring a fresh perspective to the table, which Pastor Jacqueline, she really encouraged me to do that. She was one of the main encouragers. Of mine to try new things, share a new perspective. And even on the team, I don't feel like there's many people that are like, well, I don't want to do it because I've been doing it this way for how many years? They're not stuck in their ways. I think there are times where it's like, why are we doing this? This doesn't quite make sense. But all in all, I've been very surprised and blessed to have a team that is... Willing to to change and adapt some but um that comes with you know making that transition easy for them um but they've been very open that's great to.

Meg:
[7:20] Change very flexible and teachable and i think because of the culture was built so well before us before us coming is that they pastor jacqueline's very much on give them the why we're doing this yeah and if you have the why behind it they'll stand behind it if you just say flippantly we're just going to do this they're like well why are we doing that and when you go back to that core thing like this is why we're doing this is to develop them to become a disciple but you know just go on and you give them the why and like okay and it has to become your why you just can't pastor jacqueline just can't hand it to me like this is my why like you have to come and partner with that and be like yeah i understand why we do this now right and this is part of me and now you have to relate it to your team and they're just flexible people like they're not

Isaac:
[8:10] It's a very.

Meg:
[8:11] Unique it's not rigid traditional like this is the tradition is always how we've always done it it's never like that with them it's cool like okay like there's a couple of them they'll sit back okay so why are we doing this

Isaac:
[8:22] Yeah yeah yeah or there's some that are just like i don't they'll just say like i don't like this yeah but That opens a conversation for us.

Meg:
[8:30] Discipleship moment.

Isaac:
[8:31] To be able to talk with them. And I've, That has been such a blessing to be here and to make it feel like a family that I feel open to even talk to a gentleman who probably has been serving longer than I've been alive. To talk to him about that. I don't feel like there's anyone on the team that I can't talk with that kind of stuff about or I'm afraid to. So even if they don't like it, we can still have a conversation about it. And, you know, they could change their mind because you're kind of talking through, here's what I'm dealing with. You know, here's the problems I'm trying to solve. Here's what I see. Here's the direction that I think we should head. Here's why I think we should head that way. Or even I feel led by the Lord to go in this direction with this ministry.

Dillan:
[9:15] Yeah. Isaac, I would say from our time we've been with you, you have really led me to believe that you are a people leader first. Like you really care about your people.

Meg:
[9:28] Yes.

Dillan:
[9:28] Your systems are there. You know your team very well. You speak very highly of your team. You're not speaking very highly of your gear, which is very interesting to me because you have an L-acoustics rig. You have great consoles. Oh, yeah.

Spencer:
[9:44] You have an LED wall that literally splits in half.

Dillan:
[9:46] You have an upstage fitted to your stage LED wall that is a moving LED wall. Do you feel like you were able to come in and put people first from the beginning because of that? Yeah. Or you might be like, no, dude, I would have put people first anyways. How was that journey coming on board here?

Isaac:
[10:03] Yeah. So I would say coming, I, that is my heart is the people first. Um, with that being said, I easily get caught up in all the gear and the technical stuff. And usually my wife is like, Hey, like, it's just gear. It's just tech. And a very good mentor of ours, Pastor Jacqueline, as she says, it's not eternal. Um, and obviously, you know, like you want to be a production technician with excellence. But yeah, all in all, I would definitely say people person first, you know, ministering to people. That's my heart, especially on my team and coming on staff. I feel like I was set up really well to do that. And that was encouraged because, there was already that culture built of, ministering to the people of the church and the servant leader heart that has cultured servant leader culture. That has been developed here already has made it, easy for me to come in and say, you know, let's continue to minister to this team and to the rest of the church and put people as our priority.

Dillan:
[11:24] That's good.

Spencer:
[11:24] Hey, I want to take a quick break and tell you about MXU. MXU is the one platform that you need to run your worship and tech ministry. We do it through helping you train your volunteers with thousands of training videos and automated pathways. We help you plan your weekend services with team messaging, task management, and automated scheduling. And then lastly, we help you actually run and execute Sunday with dashboards that connect all the tools that you currently use into one place. If you want to learn more about it, you can head to getmxu.com. Now back to the show. So you don't need to go finding things if they're not there, but I am curious, just like if we're being real, what's been maybe some challenges or just a challenge that you guys have faced stepping into this church and your position here?

Isaac:
[12:06] Let me think through it.

Spencer:
[12:07] Don't get yourself fired.

Isaac:
[12:08] Yeah. I don't know if this is necessarily the church's fault um yeah but.

Spencer:
[12:16] It likely isn't you know yeah no no and if it's something it's a if it's personal too it doesn't matter no but

Isaac:
[12:21] Um i would like a challenge for mine is finding the balance of, like chasing the opportunities which is funny that i say that because i just said oh as a church we chase opportunities and then as the staff we're like oh slow down we're chasing too many opportunities but now i'm going to say i've and i struggle to find the balance of, chasing the opportunities that are exciting and i think would really impact the kingdom but they're not what god is calling me to do it in that moment if that makes sense um you know like it'd be great if you could, make this one project happen but, Is it worth you, I don't want to say it's not worth it, but is it, is it what God has called you to do? And if it isn't, is it going to pull you away from your family? Is it going to pull you away from, um, taking a break, taking a Sabbath and being in God's presence? Are you choosing to work on this project because it's fun for you and you're excited about it, but it's ultimately taking time away from spending time in the word and praying, and allowing the Holy Spirit to pour into you so you can pour into your ministry? I struggle with that personally.

Dillan:
[13:40] You're thinking like hey this would be a good idea if i did this but it could be a distraction also yes and that's what you're torn between yeah is this a distraction it still might be a good thing right but it could also distract me from what i need to be doing in this moment

Isaac:
[13:55] Right yeah and even with that inner dialogue of this could be distracting me okay if it is what else am i going to do right now like should i take this time to to get away should i not be working should i.

Dillan:
[14:07] What does that look like here in your culture do you have do you have the freedom to just get away for a few days if you need to or what like

Isaac:
[14:12] Yeah they encourage us to take time off and spend it with family or relax and and truly get away um i feel like because we have the support of leadership um, they really encourage us to if we're going to take time off take the time off, and and not because I'll do that where I'm on vacation or I'm trying to take time off, but I'm looking at my phone like, oh, I got to answer this person. Oh, they need help.

Dillan:
[14:41] What about you? Challenges coming into your role here?

Meg:
[14:44] I think for me, it's more personal, like family type because we are transplants. We don't have family here. I have two young boys. How old are they? Mateo is eight, about to be nine, and Zeke is five.

Dillan:
[14:59] Wow.

Meg:
[15:00] And... They are rambunctious boys. They're all boys. And so we don't have the family support of like, hey, grandma can go pick you up from school and stuff. So my husband, Nate, is a pastor here. And so we're constantly having to have communication like, oh, I got to go today, go get the boys. I got to do this. I got to do that. And so if there's anything that comes up, it's a lot of juggling, you know, and we're the only ones that have young kids on staff. So sometimes it's like i feel the pressure of that because i do i do want to honor and be obedient and in things and be like hey you need to be here you need to do this you need that like okay well let's figure this out you know and and we've had people come alongside of us like these uh our friends dave and heather have became like aunt and uncles you know he serves in the youth as an adult leader and he's also one of our guitar players rhythm guitar and they have just became like aunt and uncle to them so they help when they can but they have full-time jobs and a business you know and stuff like that but that's been like i think the most challenging part of it is like maybe them seeing the perspective of they once had young kids and how hard it is now with young kids you know so not having that support here because they all had family here yeah you know like because they're from here you know so

Dillan:
[16:18] Yeah i'm curious the dynamic between you and your husband nate can i ask a question about it

Meg:
[16:22] The dynamic yeah

Dillan:
[16:23] I'm just curious about a specific dynamic. So it's, I've never, my wife has never served in a ministry role, but I've been in ministry for a very long time. I've worked with families who they are in dual roles as well. What is your dinner table talk usually about? Is it? Does it just, it's driven by what happens in the church, ministry, or are you guys able to disconnect?

Meg:
[16:46] We can disconnect.

Dillan:
[16:47] Wow.

Meg:
[16:48] A lot of times, like, even when our boys become present in the vehicle, church talk goes off.

Dillan:
[16:55] Is that intentional or is that just who you are?

Meg:
[16:57] I think it's just who we are. We were, before we even came here, we had been bi-vocational in ministry a lot of years. Both of us, we had a coffee shop at one point, a business that we were running.

Meg:
[17:12] And so we've always done ministry and something else. So this was like the first time where we're not doing anything else. It's solely just ministry. And so we had gotten really good at that of like when we put the boys down to bed, then we would talk ministry. And I never wanted my kids to resent ministry. I never wanted them to resent the Lord. I never wanted them to, well, you're always going there. Why do we have to go to church? Like, you know, I never wanted that tension with them. And so we've always made it a point, you know, when we, because we didn't even think we're going to be able to have kids. I was told I wouldn't be able to have kids. And the Lord just blessed us in that area. And so when we, you know, when we had Mateo, our first one, we were both in dual roles and were bivocational. And so I said, I don't want them to look at ministry as a job, like as a job title. I want it to be birthed inside of them as something that the Lord has allowed us. It's an honor, it's an opportunity to be able to serve Him. And so I think a lot of times we just, we cut off church talk. They don't need to hear some of the stuff that we talk about anyways. You know, I mean, it's not bad things, but you don't need to hear the politics of the church you don't need to hear what sally sue's doing you know yeah agreed so when will this air i got a question because i want to tell y'all so

Spencer:
[18:36] Probably air two weeks yeah two two or so

Meg:
[18:39] Weeks okay so we're in the middle of a transition and i want to tell you me and nate are transitioning um we're actually going back to my home church in georgia i'll be the associate pastor yeah i'll be the associate pastor

Dillan:
[18:54] I don't understand these podcasts there's always a bomb in the middle of the podcast it doesn't come out we've been here for hours

Meg:
[19:05] I was like should i say this i was

Dillan:
[19:07] Like this is a bait and switch

Meg:
[19:09] I kept feeling holy spirit like you gotta be transparent no

Dillan:
[19:12] We are so thankful that you told us that during this because that's going to open up so much opportunity for people going through the same season that we can help yeah we would much rather hear that now than after the fact okay you know so thank you for sharing

Isaac:
[19:23] I can't imagine after the whole conversation happens, you're like, by the way.

Meg:
[19:26] Yeah. So our boys have no clue we're going back to Georgia.

Dillan:
[19:30] Wow.

Meg:
[19:30] No clue. No inkling that we've accepted a position in Georgia, that we're moving, that anything. I mean, we've already even started packing, and these boys have no clue. So we turned in a resignation on September 21st. It's a beautiful thing. We're not leaving out of hurt or anything that's happened here. The Lord has just been speaking, speaking, speaking. He gave me Legacy Revival this past summer when I was praying. I felt like stirring, like, I'm supposed to go back home, but this is my dream job. You know, this is like, it was a tug of war. Like, I will be wherever you want me to be, Lord, no matter if I'm away from my family. You know, I will do what you want me to do. And so he gave me Legacy Revival. And he kept bringing up Malachi of, like, when the children returned to their father and their father to their children. And I was like, what does this mean? You know, because there's a lot of Legacy here. I was like, is this for Indiana or is this for Georgia? You know, and so I just kept praying and praying and praying. And my dad is a spitfire. Like, he is a Holy Ghost-filled man. Like he is like he walks with Jesus, you know, and I always tell everybody that he is a Holy Ghost spirit filled man. And and he but he's 89. I'm the youngest of seven siblings, seven girls. And he had me when he was 50.

Spencer:
[20:51] What?

Dillan:
[20:51] Yeah. And he's made to 89. Good for him. I want to meet this guy.

Isaac:
[20:56] And we're going to Georgia.

Meg:
[20:57] He's still like has a part time gig works. I mean, just very like longevity of moses okay that's what we're praying that's what we're praying yeah and um and so the lord just started speaking to me about legacy revival like grace is there because of your dad you know and and he was one of the founding people you know of your church your home church and i was like okay and one of my sisters

Spencer:
[21:23] Legacy revival is that help when you say it's just a phrase okay help the listener understand what you mean by when you say that

Meg:
[21:29] Legacy revival so it's like what But God has not, not, not necessarily in the physical of like coming to church and bringing people to church and your kids following the Lord, but like a spiritual legacy that they have deliberately started of saying my house, me and my house will serve the Lord, you know, no matter what that looks like. Seasons of hard seasons, seasons where he didn't, he's always served on the board of our church. Yeah. Um, so through transition, the pastors coming and going, he has been faithful and he is a man that sold out and just seeing the legacy that he's built of a man standing in prayer and believing and just.

Meg:
[22:15] I mean, the Holy Spirit just operates in him. I've seen people healed, you know, cancer sores fall off, you know, through his ministry. And just, I mean, he's just an incredible man. And so, and one of the things that he told me when I was probably about 17 years old is when I took my first position, worship leading position. I was 17 and he prayed over me and he was like, God is going to give you double anointing. My mantle is now yours, but he told me it's going to be a double. Anointing upon your life. I was like, okay. I always took that. And because of living in the Deep South and the Bible Belt, a lot of people looked down at me because I was a woman being in ministry, being a pastor. And so there was still a lot of people in that church at that time that didn't believe that women should be preaching and stuff like that. But I knew I had a call to preach on my life.

Meg:
[23:13] But I'd always led worship, always sang, always played. And so God has been birthing, like just stirring that within my spirit the past few years of like, you're supposed to be preaching. You're supposed to be preaching. You're supposed to be preaching. And they've really, like Pastor Jacqueline is really here, has really spoken into that. Like you are supposed to be preaching too. Like I just see that. That's one of your good things. you know okay and um anyway so go back to legacy revival and i started praying and actually one of my sisters that had walked away from the lord for i mean she was my children's pastor but had walked away from the lord for 20 something years uh rededicated her life last year it's on fire for the lord and um just incredible things and i just started having these dreams of being in ministry with my dad, my mom, and my sister, Tina. And they just kept reoccurring. And I was like, this is the legacy revival. And I never told my parents.

Meg:
[24:17] About that until after the fact. So let me go to this part. I call Pastor Dale, which is the lead pastor at my dad's church. He's one of my former youth pastors from years ago. And I said, this is what I feel like the Holy Spirit is speaking to me. Legacy Revival and I told him everything. He was like, Meg, you have no idea. I was like, what? He was like, I was telling Amy me this morning that I need to call you and Nate because y'all been so on my heart. Y'all need to be here. Like this, you need to come back home. And I was like, what? Like I was calling him just as like a mentor, mentoree type thing. Like, what do you think that his spirit's trying to say? You're in my sister's life now as the shepherd. You're, you're my parents' shepherds. Like, what are you saying? You know, like what's happening in their life? I said, cause I don't want to mention this to my dad, mention this to my dad, get him excited or anything. And then, you know, let's not even go back home. Maybe it's for Indiana. And he was like, no. He was like, you're supposed to be my associate pastor. And I was like, what? He was like, you're supposed to be my associate pastor. I want you to pray about it. I was like, okay. And so me and Nate prayed about it and the Lord just kept confirming me over and over again. And my dad still didn't know. And he's like, I'm going to take it before the board. My dad's on the board, but he's always excused himself from any voting. I mean, it deals with

Meg:
[25:45] Any family members. And so I called my dad like an hour before the meeting. I was like, hey, so you know that board meeting you're going to? And he was like, yeah, baby. I mean, he's a very Southern man. What's up? And I said, well, it's about me. And he was like, what? I was like, yeah, I was like, they're presenting, you know, us being associate pastors there. Um, and he's like, what? I was like, yeah. And he was like. Oh my God. And he just started sobbing. And he was like, I've been praying, you know, the Lord would bring you back to Georgia. He was like, I know that you're like,

Dillan:
[26:25] I know because I've been awake every night for the last two weeks. Thanks dad.

Meg:
[26:30] And you're just like sobbing like the Lord has just been speaking to me. And since your teen, your sister Tina returned home and just God doing a work in her. He's like, I just, you know, I've had these dreams of us doing ministry together and um just working the altars together and praying for people and was really ministering and i said i've had those dreams too and it's so crazy he knew and everything worked out like it's 100 across the board they were like yes please come back like you're supposed to be here blah blah and i finally told my sister tina i was like hey you need to keep it on the tl like me and nate are coming back you know to georgia and stuff and she was like oh my gosh she He was like, you know, I've been praying, the Lord has been revealing to me about a revival that's happening, like, not just in our church, but in our family, like, almost like a legacy. And I'm like, okay, like, how does this even happen?

Isaac:
[27:25] Okay, Holy Spirit. Yeah.

Dillan:
[27:26] Wow. Such a crazy... Okay. Yeah. Turn of events here. Yeah. Okay.

Spencer:
[27:33] Thank you. There's like a lot we need to cover here.

Dillan:
[27:36] So thank you. Yes. We're both going to be asking the same questions. Okay. Because it opens up a lot of opportunity here. I mean, like, you know, what does the transition look like? How do we make sure this church is taken care of? How do we make sure you're taken care of? How do you know, like, who your worship pastor is coming in? Are the volunteers? We've already set up the fact that we receive here very well, new staff. Is there a new position? Spencer, what were you getting recently? Are you getting ready to ask kind of the same things?

Spencer:
[28:01] First of all, I'm super pumped for you. That is so exciting. I mean, obviously, there is so much opportunity that is clearly being presented by the Lord for you guys in the ministry. But even what you just shared in the struggle of being here and the lack of family, I'm sure that is a really, really exciting change to be able to go back and be around family. So, gosh, even like for you, Isaac, I'm like, man, I've been there where it's so clear that God is doing something in someone's life that is calling them away from something that I am called to. So that's also really hard because you're like, I'm so pumped for you, Meg. This is going to be great.

Dillan:
[28:46] I'm so sad. But also, this kind of sucks.

Spencer:
[28:50] Like a little bit. You know, in the flesh, it has to a little bit. Yeah. It's like, man. Yep. And um and i'm certain that your oversight feels that way too here at the church where it's like and and it sounds like you guys have great health here where um this can be an amazing transition but not easy and there's a lot of people listening that are like there's some that have maybe are listening to you right now going i've been feeling that but i've been putting this off for a long time because I don't, I've been scared or maybe I I'm waiting on

Dillan:
[29:30] The great unknown.

Spencer:
[29:31] Like here's the other thing too. And we can dive into some of this. You guys are very spirit led. I can, I can hear it in just the way you're communicating and who you are. There's some people listening to this episode that really struggle with that too.

Meg:
[29:42] Yeah.

Spencer:
[29:44] That, that have that feeling that stirring that are like, maybe they grew up in a church where they felt there was, you know, emotional manipulation. And so they maybe reject some of uh we can get into some of that we can get there there's a lot that i'm like

Meg:
[30:02] Whoa yeah

Spencer:
[30:04] Um i would be curious first of all what's nate gonna do is he gonna come alongside you guys are going to be associate pastors together

Meg:
[30:15] The associate pastor is mainly my title okay um he is actually feeling a call to be provider and dad why he wants to work a job outside the church he wants us to serve in the church like he yeah he loves preaching he loves serving he's like i he didn't have a father in his life and so he's like i need to be a father and a husband that provides for my family nothing

Dillan:
[30:38] Wrong with that

Meg:
[30:39] And he's like i want to be able to fund their dreams of what holy spirit is telling them to do wow and be able for them to walk out their calling too

Spencer:
[30:49] I want to talk a little bit about you guys both grew up in the pentecostal movement is that correct

Isaac:
[30:56] Yeah i grew up in h.u church but i'd say that here there's more um, the fluidity of spirit whereas ag church i grew up and there was a lot of structure and not that there wasn't fluidity of spirit but um i'd say more so here anyways yes kind of.

Spencer:
[31:17] Um i i would love to get your guys perspective so i've already told you i grew up pretty much baptist for the most part i have come just from a completely different um background But there is a tension in our community, especially in the worship and technical community, of the Pentecostal movement. This very, some would say, hyper-emotional environment. Some would say very feelings-first environment. I don't know. I'm just going to call it things. Some of it might sound negative, but it's just like, you know, there's all these kind of categorizations or, yeah. Yeah. And I'm really curious just to hear from you guys. And I'll be very, there's a lot of conversations I go into with the dog in the fight. I really don't. I'm really just like, I think it would be helpful. I don't get to talk to many Pentecostal churches, actually, if I'm being honest with you.

Spencer:
[32:16] I'm going to think about why that is. But all that to say, yeah, I would love to just hear from you guys, like how you have navigated that as a worship leader okay we're planning sets um we're trying to create an an atmosphere for people to encounter the holy spirit and to worship god how do we do that in a way that is not manipulative that some people might honestly target a church like yours and say it feels manipulative i come in here i feel like they're making trying to make me feel certain things that i'm not ready to feel whatever like yeah how has that been for you guys Yes.

Isaac:
[32:55] Um so can i so um, i've been dwelling on this for i mean a while so i grew up in an ag church i went to school that um is a part of three methodists okay um, Out of school, I was working, actually, part of my testimony is I wasn't attending church for a period of time. And then when Lord just met me where I was, I got a job at a non-denom church, that I guess you'd say have Baptist roots. And so that was the church before coming here. So it's kind of like a complete different atmosphere environment. But i was familiar with this one um so all that to say um i've i've heard some of that kind of talk um i've.

Isaac:
[33:56] You know heard both sides of it and it's an intriguing conversation to me uh, an intriguing thought and i've kind of, my heart and what i really feel like the church as a whole is is longing for is to be reunified in some ways. I think the Lord has equipped each of our denominations differently, and those people have flocked together to create our denominations and has created these little bubbles. Whereas I think what the Lord intended is that we support one another and are unified together. And so I think that's the heart of our church is that, yes, we're pentecostal but we want to partner with churches that are not uh we you know we want to um build relationships with um.

Isaac:
[34:52] All types of different backgrounds yeah and and not to say that um you know we're loose with our doctrine and our theology um but, I think that that relationship between Christians is more important than what our idea of Christianity is. So anyways, I think at this church, we actually do a really good job of, or at least we do a good job of trying to balance the spirit with the structure. So we plan every week what service looks like and we stick to it as best we can.

Dillan:
[35:31] What does that look like planning was? How do you plan? Yeah.

Isaac:
[35:34] On a weekly basis, we'll meet on Tuesdays. Mm-hmm. Us and Pastor, Pastor Jockley and Executive Pastor, and just kind of talk through what happened last Sunday and then prep for the coming Sunday. Mm-hmm.

Dillan:
[35:48] So you're preparing your coming Sunday on the Tuesday of?

Meg:
[35:52] Just more finalization.

Isaac:
[35:53] Finalizing.

Dillan:
[35:54] Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Meg:
[35:56] I was usually set lists. Yeah. Two weeks out. Yeah. At least.

Isaac:
[36:00] Organized a lot of service schedule and planning center.

Spencer:
[36:04] Okay, so you do have a set list? Yes. I think it's important because like some churches, they don't.

Isaac:
[36:09] They're like, you go for it. Yeah, we want to, I mean, you could speak into that.

Meg:
[36:13] There's like a holy balance, I think, in between structure and spirit. Yeah. Because if you're all spirit, and no structure, you get kind of weird and crazy. I mean, honestly, it looks crazy. But then there's that structure that comes alongside of that and supports that spirit and keeps you in check and keeps those weights and balances in check and being like, okay, we can flow in the spirit and still be within timeframe. You know, I'm upset.

Isaac:
[36:40] Be fearful of the authority of God.

Dillan:
[36:43] One thing too that I've noticed since I've been here is um i know for a fact this church prays yeah like i just feel it um we've seen

Spencer:
[36:53] It we haven't we've seen it

Dillan:
[36:54] We've seen it um i know that you had mentioned there's a 30 minute prayer before both services yeah right there alone like is that a structure thing or is this open the doors for people to come pray for 30 minutes

Isaac:
[37:07] Um there is structure so we really protect the atmosphere of worship in that room. The people coming into the sanctuary for prayer are supposed to be praying. If they're on their phone scrolling, we politely say, hey, you can do that in the lobby. You can have conversations in the lobby. You can enjoy prayer.

Dillan:
[37:24] Yeah, but there's no flow. Like, are you getting up there every 15 minutes and being like,

Meg:
[37:27] You're not really? Sometimes, some Sundays you are. It's past Sunday. Pastor Jacqueline let it.

Dillan:
[37:33] So she'll get up there and be like, hey, I want you to specifically pray for in these moments.

Isaac:
[37:36] Yes.

Dillan:
[37:36] You know, that is healthy structure and you're still very Holy Spirit driven.

Meg:
[37:40] It is discipleship. Yeah, 100%. Because there might be some people that come in here that don't know how to pray.

Dillan:
[37:45] It doesn't seem like that's something you have to just constantly teach her. It is just who you are as a church. Like, with or without you, with or without you, with or without Pastor Jack, Jacqueline. So that's just a very unique thing that you guys have here.

Spencer:
[37:57] That's what comes with legacy churches, man. I'm learning that. How have you guys, because this is a question I've gotten from some people who also have very spirit-filled services and encourage their people. Have you guys had any any stories you can share and still honoring folks of like how do you lead people in a direction that To allow the Holy Spirit to fill them in worship service and to be able to worship freely but not be a distraction to others.

Meg:
[38:26] Yeah.

Isaac:
[38:28] Something that has stuck with me, again, Pastor John Kling said it, but it's easy for me to remember and it's very applicable. Ministry is messy. So inevitably when you open up, your service schedule in the moment, or even if you plan like, oh, we're not going to really structure this time. Um, I'd say even in a Pentecostal spirit filled church, you're going to have people that, um, their flesh kind of takes over and it becomes something that is not Holy Spirit led. And, um, that is messy. How do you, what are you supposed to do that in the moment? Like that takes a lot of spiritual discernment. I believe you have, she does that great leads those moments very well um but we don't want the fear of that being like oh how are we going to handle this to keep us, from allowing the space for the holy spirit to move or even change things in the moment i mean.

Spencer:
[39:26] Which can be done pretty frequently as well in churches yeah yeah

Isaac:
[39:29] And that's like there's been a number of times and i've never seen this this at the other than at this church where we have you know our regular worship set list announcements sermon And, by the middle of worship, we're like, I think this is going to continue. And by the end of the set, pastor comes up and he's like, I'm not even going to preach. Like, we're just going to keep continuing worship. And the whole morning will be worship because it's just this beautiful sound that's rising up. And the Lord is moving.

Meg:
[39:57] People are coming up and giving their hearts to Jesus. I mean, just beautiful times.

Isaac:
[40:01] And we don't want to sacrifice our comfort for knowing that we've got this service under control. Or we don't want to sacrifice those moments of life change and the Holy Spirit encounters because we're afraid that we don't have control of this service. But that being said, there is an element of authority that.

Meg:
[40:24] Needs to be

Isaac:
[40:24] Had and that falls on the pastors, worship pastor, senior pastor, executive pastor's shoulders.

Meg:
[40:29] Yeah. Yeah.

Spencer:
[40:32] Yeah, it's really... This came up in a conversation, Dylan, I had recently with a worship pastor of a pretty large church. It was a hot take, which we'll get to in a second. But he was just talking like, man, if we could just not hold our services with such tight, closed fists. Yeah. I think we tend to put. We put people in a box with language and we talk about like, okay, well, Pentecostal church, I know what that means. They don't have a set list. They don't have structure. So to hear you say like their spirit and structure is like, no, like there are ways that these things can be done and how we do order of service and how we encourage our team to lead in service and still have discernment.

Isaac:
[41:18] Yeah.

Spencer:
[41:19] It's really cool.

Meg:
[41:20] I think it's like also going back to like not prioritizing one thing above the other, they cohesively come together. The word and worship come together, you know? And so that's how I think it also flows better that way. Like we don't want to go three weeks in a row with no word. Even if the Holy Spirit is moving and it becomes a whole time of worship, there's still an opportunity for a response to give your life to Jesus. There's still word in it. He even comes up and he's like, the Lord is speaking this to me and it touches someone's heart and they give their life to Jesus. It's all about eternal. And sometimes we have to become uncomfortable to allow those things to move. There's times during worship. I tell the team all the time. And the Holy Spirit will just tell me to pause and it just becomes a quiet moment where it's not a lot of things but the Holy Spirit is moving you can feel him in the room and it's not like a feeling of emotion yeah but you you just sense this peace that passes all understanding that comes in the room weights being lifted like a dislikeness that comes in the room I'm like okay you're here you know we're just going to pause right here for a minute because this is ministering to someone. And it's uncomfortable for the team sometimes. Yeah. Because you just want to charge through to the next thing. But we have to give him space to move. And... Yes, you need structure. Yes, you need the word. Yes, you need those things. But all cohesively comes together to point them to Jesus.

Meg:
[42:50] When it becomes like this, when it's just a show and it just becomes like this, like, look what I can do.

Spencer:
[42:54] Look what I planned.

Meg:
[42:55] Yeah, look what I planned. Look what pastors preach in. Look what, you know. No, we always want to point them to him. Yeah. And that's the ultimate thing is like, okay, if it's just five minutes of uncomfortableness of just standing here, I want to be obedient to you Holy Spirit we're just going to stand we're just going to pause in this moment yeah

Spencer:
[43:14] A lot oftentimes leading is allowing people to see you surrendering yeah and I think we as leaders in the church we love to have all the answers yeah we love you know there's so many conversations and podcasts about how you can command a room and get people to feel comfortable following and it's like yeah but we still have to have they need to witness us submitting to the authority that we're

Meg:
[43:37] Worshiping to yes yeah

Spencer:
[43:38] And so are we allowing yeah and that's that's something we see the west struggle with right now for sure just like our churches here in america that's something that we're working through i think because you see it happening in other other places in the world you're like whoa yeah anyways okay hot takes what are you guys hot takes give us just one and it can be as hot and sizzling as you want

Isaac:
[44:05] My hot take which is kind of funny that i'm saying this on a production podcast as a production director, but currently we are I feel like there's the trend within production of the stage design being blacked out a lot of lights a lot of LED panels and it looks cool, I kind of feel like that's going to fade out. What's coming next, I'm not sure. But I'm kind of getting tired of that in church. I think in a concert setting, it's awesome. And you can certainly use tech in church in that way to create a beautiful atmosphere, to express artistry. But I see it on every single church. And I honestly feel like it's kind of getting tired. and i'm curious to see what's coming next.

Spencer:
[44:55] Yeah i love it i couldn't agree more though and i actually don't think it's that weird um of you to say that as a production guy i see a lot i hear a lot of production guys saying that because they're the ones who are yes

Isaac:
[45:08] Doing who are.

Spencer:
[45:09] Doing it and they're like man if i'm not into this i don't think my mother-in-law is right yeah you know yeah like if i'm getting old if i'm getting tired of this yeah so it's a hot take but i think it's actually a well-received one these days at where people are at. Meg, what about you?

Meg:
[45:29] I may get backlash on this. I think it's like the celebrity culture within the church. Yeah. Worship leaders. Um, I'm not a, not an Instagram girly, TikTok girly. And it really, it really gets on my nerves.

Dillan:
[45:58] Do you have any like specific names?

Spencer:
[46:00] First and last please.

Meg:
[46:02] It's just, because I'm always, I'm always in the mindset. I just want to point people to Jesus. I just want people to see Jesus. It doesn't matter. You will not know my job title. I've worked with people. They knew I was a daughter of the king. I was sold out daughter of the king. But I never told them I led worship. I never told them I sang. I never felt like I had to. I never thought that's not my identity. And this became such a celebrity. Like, oh, this is my identity. Let me, this is what we're doing at worship rehearsal. This is what we're doing. I'm like, it's so about you in that moment. And I've tried to see both perspectives of, okay, they're just trying to show people like how they do things at their church. But in reality, all I'm seeing is this is about you.

Spencer:
[46:53] What's at the root of that?

Meg:
[46:54] What is at the root of this? Are you wanting people to be like, oh, my gosh, I love your outfit. I want those track pants with those shoes and, you know. About the worship leader outfit of the century. You know, like, I can't. And it grieves me because I'm like, are we doing this for the right reason? Are we doing this because we want to be so-and-so?

Meg:
[47:19] You know? Yeah. Are we doing this because we want to be seen? Are we doing this because we want people to come to the loving knowledge of Jesus Christ and for them to give their heart and their soul to Jesus and to get, plugged in somewhere and serving i don't see that as doing that i don't see you leading them to jesus i just believe it's kind of a fashion show it's become all these things that oh look at all the tech we have at our church yeah look at all this look at all that and i'm like it becomes a comparison game for a lot of people and it deals with their identity and they get oh well they have this and that. So we can never do that. And I'm like, now you're doubting the very thing that God's called you to do because you're comparing to these people who are serving and who are reaching a totally different demographic than you are. You're not called to that demographic. Why are you comparing yourself to them or what they have or what tech they have or what you worry about what God has called you to do? What's the intent in your heart behind it?

Meg:
[48:25] Is it just to gain money? Is it just for your name to be seen? There's always, like, is it just, is it really about the Lord or is it about, I'm just, I'm going to build my name. Yeah. And I want people to know who I am. And that's the difference. If you could be sincere of like, this is what God's called me to do and I'm going to, you know, the Holy Spirit's given me this vision to build this business. Yeah. The Lord elevates no matter what.

Meg:
[48:54] But we can't become the celebrity of like I gotta have the spotlight I gotta do this I gotta show you you know

Spencer:
[49:01] That's a great I love your hot take. Thank you for sharing. And yeah, there's probably going to be a lot of people who disagree with you and that's okay. They're probably wrong. So, hey, okay. Thank you so much for joining us if you've made it this far. And guys, thank you for being transparent. We learned a lot on this episode. Yeah. And... I love it. I love the way that this came about, and I got a ton from it. And so, yeah, thank you for getting into personal stuff and being so honoring of the church as well and sharing. If you want to learn more about Charity Church, we'll put a link in the description below. Dylan, I haven't even told you guys, Dylan has a book coming out. Dylan, tell them about your book just a little bit.

Dillan:
[49:43] By the time this rolls out, the book will be available. It's a four series, four volumes inside of one book. It's uh 16 years of just me taking notes on hearing stories like you guys and hearing do's and don'ts and then of course my 16 years of being in full-time ministry and taking notes in my phones i've translated that into four four different books very short reads very very easy read uh every chapter ends with practical steps and reflection questions so earlier we talked about leaving a service let it breathe so there's actually a chapter in our book that says everything that has life breathes so it's the idea of taking a checklist worship experience and dissecting that down and letting your service just breathe because you need that life back in your service. And so that's one of our, that's one of the chapters in the books. And then the reflection questions is more of a, um, how does your service look? And you can actually go and fill it out like a workbook. Um, and then there's then, uh, uh, practical steps on if you don't know how to let your service breathe, here are some practical steps on ways that you can start to begin to implement into your service so that you can let your service breathe.

Spencer:
[50:41] Yeah. So if you want to learn more about the weekend ready playbook or get it it's like 25 bucks whatever it's in the description below dylan if you hit him up he'll probably give you one for free too so yes yeah if you want to learn more about mxu training your volunteers planning your weekends sunday systems getting everything housed under one hood you can go to getmxu.com we'll put a link in the description below as well if you want us to come to your church hit us up don't be scared we would love to come learn about you your story and all the good things that god is doing in your community you can reach out to us I don't know comments support at getmxu.com whatever way you'll find us and yeah thanks for joining the MXU podcast we'll see you next time